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Author Topic: Why there is no rapture  (Read 3151 times)

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doug

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Why there is no rapture
« on: May 21, 2012, 12:20:00 PM »

Hello Friends,

I see elsewhere that there is discussion and interest on the "rapture".  I thought it might be helpful to start a discussion on this topic and I am hoping that there will be others to build on this.  I believe it will be edifying for all of us as like minded believers.

The following explanation is why I believe that there will be no "rapture" and that it is a false theory.

I Thessalonians 4:17 is the *single* scripture used to justify "the rapture" by false doctrine.  Based on scripture you cannot make a doctrine on a single scripture (II Peter 1:20).  The word "rapture" does not appear in the text of any translation of the bible, in any language.

"caught up" are the words used by many when referring to the rapture.   King James must have missed this one because the words "caught up" and not found in the Young's Concordance for I Thess 4:17.  However, "catch" is listed under that scripture.  That word appears 13 times, and is translated 6 different ways: catch, catch away, catch (caught) up, pluck and take by force.  In the 12 other scriptures, it has nothing to do with the physical removal of living people from the earth to heaven.

Also in the "rapture" chapter, 1 Thess 4:17, is to meet the Lord "in the air".  According to the Strong's and Young's concordance, "air" is the Greek word "aer", as used in the following scriptures:

Acts 22:23, .... and threw dust into the air (aer).

I Cor 9:26, .... not as one who beateth the air (aer).

I Cor 14:9, .... for ye shall speak in the air (aer).

Another Greek word which is also translated, air, in the KJV is "ouranos".  That translation is found in Matt 6:26, 8:20, 13:32; Mark 4:4 & 32; Luke 8:5, 9:58, 13:19 and Acts 10:12, 11:6.  Each one of these scriptures refer to "birds/fowls of the air (ouranos).

Example:  Grab a handful of dirt and throw it into the air.  That's about where you would be hanging if there were to be a "rapture", based on the recorded meaning of the word "air".

Next we have the phrase, "with them in the clouds".  If you look outside, you can see the clouds "up there".  But, is that what the scripture means? No!

In the following scriptures, the cloud came down to earth:

Matt 17:5; Mark 9:7; Luke 9:34.

In I Cor 10:1,2 they were under the cloud, and were baptized in the cloud.

Hebrews 1:36 - 12:2 talks about "so great a cloud of witnesses.

With all of the above, let us read I Thess 4, beginning at verse 13, with a much more accurate and clearer understanding of the words and terms used therein.  For clarity, I will put the scripture quotes from I Thess in capital letters.

"BUT I WOULD NOT HAVE YOU IGNORANT, BRETHEREN, CONCERNING THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP (this scripture is primarily about the departed/dead saints in Christ) THAT YE SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS WHICH HAVE NO HOPE (the Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection).  FOR IF WE BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED AND ROSE AGAIN (we all believe that), EVEN SO (in like manner) THEM ALSO WHICH SLEEP (are dead) IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM (Jesus).  FOR THIS WE SAY UNTO YOU BY THE WORD OF THE LORD, THAT WE (true believers) WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN (on earth) UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD SHALL NOT PREVENT (precede, have no advantage over) THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP.  FOR THE LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN (Acts 1:11, Jesus went directly from earth to heaven and shall return "in like manner" directly from heaven to earth) WITH A SHOUT, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, AND THE TRUMP OF GOD: AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE (Greek word anistemi - to set up or be resurrected) FIRST: THEN WE WHO ARE ALIVE ("we shall not all die, but shall be changed/transfigured" - I Cor 15:51) AND REMAIN (on the earth in the "aer" SHALL BE CAUGHT UP (made one - harpazo) TOGETHER (at the same time) WITH THEM (the dead in Christ) IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR (the great cloud of witnesses that will be made perfect with us on earth when Jesus brings their spirits with Him to be united with their bodies resurrected out of the ground first into the air (aer) with us in the air, on the surface of the earth): AND SO SHALL WE (for) EVER BE WITH THE LORD (in the air (aer) here on earth for the Kingdom Age).  WHEREFORE, COMFORT (reassure) ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS."

Notice, the Lord "descended from heaven" before we are "caught up" to Him; just as the " New Jerusalem" came down to dwell with us - Revelation 21:2.

Okay... what say you?


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newgene87

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2012, 12:37:01 PM »

I will continue to pray over this. But  even though the rapture has holes in it: that verse still smells "rapture". I mean "harpazo" (seized away, carried off, catches away) TOGETHER with them in the clouds (even though not the clouds in the heavens); it still smells rapture. The question is: WHEN will this event in 1 Thess 4:16-17); happen? And what of those are work inqiuity and don't believe? And to be honest; Ive never been to a church that preached on this I've only seen the left behind movies: and it seems bogus to me anyway. But this still smells like rapture...or maybe I'm getting the meaning rapture wrong. Cause whether "air" or "cloud" whats the big difference? Regardless we shall be carried off together with them (the dead right?) to be with the lord. Thanks :) :) :)
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2012, 03:44:54 PM »

One aspect of the false rapture teaching is easy to disprove.  That part that says the saved will be caught up with Jesus in the clouds and go with Him to heaven.

That is false because Jesus is returning to the earth to reign for the ages---on the earth.  Specifically, the scriptures teach that Jesus will first set His feet down on the mount of Olives, in Jerusalem.

First scripture is Acts 1:1-12.  Forty days after His resurrection, Jesus was with His apostles on the mount of Olives when He ascended into heaven and went into the clouds, never to be seen by them in a physical body again.  The angels told the apostles that He would return in the same manner as they saw Him go---that is, His feet was on the mount of Olives and He went into the clouds---He would return from the clouds and stand on the mount of Olives.

Second scripture is Zechariah 14:4.  "And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east..."  These scriptures in Zechariah speak of the time when the LORD comes to rule.
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Kat

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2012, 07:35:18 PM »


Hi Gene,

Quote
But this still smells like rapture...or maybe I'm getting the meaning rapture wrong. Cause whether "air" or "cloud" whats the big difference? Regardless we shall be carried off together with them (the dead right?) to be with the lord.


1Th 4:17  then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;

Mar 13:26  And then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
v. 27  And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.

This is the first resurrection, this is where the Elect have raised up and gather to "meet" Jesus Christ. Those in the first resurrection will no longer be earth bound, they have been perfected and are born into the heavenly kingdom as the bride of Christ, New Jerusalem.

Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. And the sea no longer is.
v. 2  And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband.

The second resurrection of the rest of the dead will be back to physical life and they of course will live on the earth and so the chosen elect will be reigning with Christ on this earth.

Rev 5:10  And You made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign over the earth.

Mat 6:10  Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.

So the Elect will rise up to meet Jesus Christ, but their mission is to reign with Christ over the nations on the earth, who must be purged and cleansed of all their wood, hay and stubble. The elect are the lake of fire.

Rev 21:3  And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.

Rev 21:10-11  And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God, having the glory of God...

Rev 21:22  And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty is its temple, even the Lamb.
v. 23  And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they might shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
v. 24  And the nations of those who are saved will walk in the light of it; and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.
v. 25  And its gates may not be shut at all by day, for there shall be no night there.
v. 26  And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it.
v. 27  And there shall in no way enter into it anything that defiles, or any making an abomination or a lie; but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

Quote
The question is: WHEN will this event in 1 Thess 4:16-17); happen?

Mat 24:36  But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels of Heaven, but only My Father.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 07:37:26 PM by Kat »
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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

newgene87

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2012, 08:25:54 PM »

Thanks kat!  ;D ;D. Makes alot of sense now; by faith that is. MY thing is now, and it is a little humor; but there have been billions and billions and billions of people that have lived on earth....will they all fit?? :P :o :o. I'll take rays advice and don't over think it i guess  8) 8). Thanks again  ;D
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Gina

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 01:53:25 AM »

I'm so glad someone brought up this topic.  Thank you.   

I've struggled with understanding the secret rapture paper as well. 

For me, it's not that I take issue with the secret rapture theory.  It sounds totally hokey to me.

What I constantly wonder about is this...
The Coming of the Lord


Heb. 11 or 12 (or something, sorry!) 13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.

14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

15 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.
 

:)

Okay.  We're not talking about literal clouds and literal air here, are we?  Because I thought clouds related to this: 

Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses (not, "witnesses IN the clouds, but cloud OF witnesses, see?), let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

And I thought "air" related to this:



Eph 2

1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.


"That was so much help, Gina.  I know exactly what you mean..  Yup.  Sure." 

But does anyone see what I'm trying to say?  The words clouds and air are used symbolically in those verses from Hebrews and Ephesians...  See?  Anyone?  haha??



« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 02:02:42 AM by Gina »
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doug

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 02:55:28 AM »

The rapture theory is popularized by the subsequent need for a place to go in the false doctrines of pre, mid and post tribulation ideas for the return of Christ.  Like John stated, there is nobody going to heaven after the first resurrection.  That's why the churches have devised a place - heaven for the believers - and hell or annihilation for those "left behind" with a hundred subliminal points of view.

But here is how I understand The Day of the Lord and the Blessed Hope of the church/elect, "looking for the blessed hope, and the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ."  Titus 2:13.

Christ is not going to make a swooping pass by the earth to snatch off a few people to take them to heaven, but there will be a reunion with Christ by those of us alive at the time and also a reunion with the true believers who have gone before us.  The reunion will be a uniting of believers who remain alive with the believers who died along with Christ.  The saints don't rise to "run away" to heaven and leave all others "left behind".

The rapture says Christ takes his saints to heaven to spare them from the "Great Tribulation".  But spirit beings don't need to be rescued from anything that the physical realm might inflict.  We (the elect of God) can't be hurt by physical events.  It therefore makes no sense to think that Christ must take us to heaven to protect us from the judgments on the earth.  We in fact will be teaching those on the earth.

The saints rise to meet Christ in the air while on His way to the earth to defeat evil and to establish the Kingdom of God here.  The Greek term translated "to meet" in I Thess 4:17 from the Tyndale Commentary says that it is an expression of a technical term "for the official welcome of a newly arrived dignitary".  Notice that it pertains to a newly arrival, not to one who is merely passing through.  In no way does it convey that Christ only enters the atmosphere and them reverses course, as He "snatches" believers away to heaven.

Another commentary notes that "when a king enters his city the loyal go forth to meet him".  Jesus' loyal saints, the resurrected saints, rise from the earth to meet Him as He comes to govern the world, and they escort Him back to the earth - at this time - The Day of The Lord.

Zechariah confirms this:  "And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south...  Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with you."  Zech 14:4,5.

In conclusion, I'll summarize what I Thess 4:16,17 actually says:

Christ's return is proclaimed by an angel's trumpet blast; it is clearly not a secret matter (secret rapture).

The fact that some believers had died doesn't mean they would be left out; they will be resurrected to join Christ as He returns to establish the new Kingdom Age (Kingdom of God on earth).

Living believers will also be changed to spirit to join those resurrected from the dead.

All elect will form a welcoming party that rises to meet Christ and escort him back to earth, absolutely nothing is said or implied about going to heaven.

His return is the prophesied second coming, not a clandestine snatch and grab of the true believer saints, the elect of God.  The resurrected saints who meet Christ will immediately begin to serve with Him in the Kingdom of God on earth (Revelation 20:6).

There is no rapture.  There is a resurrection of the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
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doug

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2012, 03:35:14 AM »

Hey Gene, nice to meet you!

I also have pondered and have imagined the concept you proposed "billions and billions and billions of people on earth... will they fit?"

Will physical life continue after this event (the first resurrection)?  The bible explains that spirit beings do not get married or have children.  "They neither marry or given in marriage".  Luke 20:35.  But what about those who are not changed into spirit when Jesus returns?  As physical human beings, are they capable of having children as they learn God's way of life?  That is a question I have wondered.  Is it "life as usual" for them?  (except of course the judgment process they will all endure).

For instance, considering what you said Gene - When I got my driver's license in the early '60's, there were approximately 3 billion people on this planet.  Life seemed like a breeze then.  I could just jump in my car, there was no traffic congestion, and I could just "fool around" (with my "girl"  ;D) and it was a great and happy past time.  Seemingly there were no crowds and going shopping was pleasant.  In other words... you could "spread your wings" and "fart" without no one close by to notice!

And now days... there are approximately 7 billion people on this planet.  I now sometimes feel like a rat in a cage!  I have to seek the wilderness to keep my sanity!  What's going to happen at the resurrection and beyond?  Let's say that there were at least another 7 billion people from Adam to the Lord's coming... and that is probably a very conservative number.  How are they all going to fit on this earth comfortably?  Will Greenland, Antarctica, Siberia and other desolate places become more habitable?  (don't give me that example where all the people now living could have adequate space in an area the size of Texas... that doesn't seem feasible to me). 

Well, maybe someone else has wrestled with those same ideas.  But, then again, if we were to know, God would have told us!

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santgem

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2012, 05:02:44 AM »

"New heaven and a New Earth"

If it is new then it is not like the old. LOL! :D

Will not God double or triple or making the new earth so huge that all inhabitants could fit in?

Who knows? ;D
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longhorn

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2012, 08:09:15 AM »

My Head just exploded.
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doug

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2012, 10:51:52 AM »

"
"New heaven and a New Earth

@ Santgen -

I'm thinking the new heaven and the new earth will  be in another era?  Futher on down the road?  Possibly in the last era?

« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 01:08:46 PM by doug »
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Marky Mark

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2012, 11:33:59 AM »

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

 Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Eph 2:6 And raised us up together, and seated us together in the heavenlies, in Christ:

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


Peace...Mark
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doug

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2012, 12:04:48 PM »

There are five eons mentioned in scripture.  I could look up all the verses but it would take awhile.

An eon is an indefinite period (does not mean eternity)

Before the eons:  before the ages began, before any of the "beginning's" mentioned in scripture.  I Cor 2:7.

The first eon:  The beginning, creation of the heaven and earth - the first heaven and earth.  Genesis one.

The second eon:  The creation of man at the seven days of creation up to the flood of Noah's day.

The third eon:  This present eon; this wicked eon ending at the coming of Christ.

The fourth eon:  The coming Kingdom Age or Millennium ending at the Great White Throne Judgment.

The fifth eon:  The New Heaven and New Earth.

Ephesians 2:7 speaks of the oncoming eons, i.e. ages to come.

The conclusion of God's purpose of universal reconciliation, Christ turns over to His God and Father the reconciled universe for which He died... where in:

God is ALL in ALL

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eggi

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2012, 12:13:57 PM »

From http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH [of man] and the HEAVEN [of man] fled away; and there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM… And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev. 20:11, 16 & 21:1).

It would be mind-boggling enough to think that the entire UNIVERSE could "flee away," but it would be quite another to then suggest that, "there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM." That would be absurd if taken literally. ALL THESE THINGS ARE SPIRITUAL! In the white throne judgment there will be no more a place for the flesh, for the carnal mind, for man’s heaven. There will truly be no place found for them. They will be annihilated in God’s "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29 & I Cor. 3:15)!

God will give man a new earth and a new heaven, and as for the great sea of carnal, God-defying humanity, "…and there was NO MORE SEA."
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Here’s how to tell if you have faith; how do you live… what do you do… what do you accomplish in life… what are your goals… What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

Kat

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2012, 12:46:20 PM »


We know for certain that God has a plan already worked out. He already knows how many people He will have brought into existence when Christ returns. He also knew how big to build the earth so it could handle to number of people that would be here at any time. We don't know how the resurrection of the dead will take place, perhaps it will be in stages, though I don't know of a Scripture that suggests that.

We do know that there will be great changes to take place when Christ takes over rulership of this planet. The earth as we have it now is about 71% water and 29% land. Deserts actually make up 33%, or 1/3rd of the land’s surface area, roughly 10.6% of the world's land is considered arable (tillable). But the Scripture have some good news about that.

Isa 35:1  The wilderness and the dry land shall be glad; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

That one thing will make a huge difference, but God may have quite a bit of other changes that will take place with the land as well. God may remove the curse on the land, so that it will not be so hostile towards working and growing things.

Gen 3:17  ...cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
v. 18  thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field.
v. 19  By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return."

Also the very nature of the animals will be changed.

Isa 11:6  The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.
v. 7  The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
v. 8  The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.
v. 9  They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Will all the animals become herbivores? Will there not be savage beast that roam the earth any more? Will God take away hostility from nature as well as man?
These are just a couple of the tremendous changes the Scriptures talk about that will profoundly alter the way of life on this planet once Jesus Christ returns. I would surmise that there will be many more wonders that will take place as well.

mercy, peace and love
Kat




« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 04:53:45 PM by Kat »
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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

Gina

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2012, 06:16:01 PM »

I could've sworn all that is being spoken of those verses is symbollic.

"The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra,"  Assuming that the child is very young, why would he want to play over the hole of a cobra?  And what if he falls in?  :D

"...and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den."   

There's no mention of bees here. 


v. 19  By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return."

Just bread?  What about meat?  How about vegies?  And what about fruit?  No mention of drinking water or anything and water's pretty hard to come by in certain parts of the world.

It's funny how:

"The earth as we have it now is about 71% water and 29% land..."

And yet that's pretty much the composition of the human body.

It's all symbollic.

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doug

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2012, 06:48:52 PM »

I could've sworn all that is being spoken of those verses is symbollic.

"The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra,"  Assuming that the child is very young, why would he want to play over the hole of a cobra?  And what if he falls in?  :D

"...and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den."   

There's no mention of bees here. 


v. 19  By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return."

Just bread?  What about meat?  How about vegies?  And what about fruit?  No mention of drinking water or anything and water's pretty hard to come by in certain parts of the world.

It's funny how:

"The earth as we have it now is about 71% water and 29% land..."

And yet that's pretty much the composition of the human body.

It's all symbollic.

Hey Gina  -   I, like you believe symbolic is right!

Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life, he who comes to Me will not hunger, and He who believes in me will never thirst.  John 6:35

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.  Give us this day our daily bread...   Matt 6: 9-13

Jesus is absolutely the *bread* of all mankind!

This is some good discussion and observation!
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indianabob

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2012, 11:02:39 PM »

Hi Gina,

Bread is often used generically as is the word "meat", but bread is made of vegetable matter e.g. ground seeds and oil and yeast if it is whole grain and fresh. Plus for common country folks, flesh for food is a luxury, you don't kill the goat or cow that is giving milk and more calves or the chicken that is giving eggs several times a week. I can live quite well on rolled oats and honey with skim milk and dried raisins or plain unsweetened apple sauce. Scrambled eggs and beans. Sour dough bread and cheese.
Just my two cents worth of useless info.
Ole Bob
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Joel

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2012, 11:56:24 PM »

Is everything symbolic, or Spiritualized?

Luke 24:37-39 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Joel
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Gina

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Re: Why there is no rapture
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2012, 12:08:47 AM »

Is everything symbolic, or Spiritualized?

Luke 24:37-39 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Joel

Of course not, Joel.  You and I and everything and everyone here is living proof of that.  But the verses I'm talking about, those are definitely speaking symbolically.  Don't you believe me? 
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