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Author Topic: earnest of spirit  (Read 1725 times)

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rocky

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earnest of spirit
« on: October 07, 2007, 08:40:15 PM »

This was stated by arcturus on another thread and has got me thinking.

"Only Christ can give us conversion by giving us the deposit of His Spirit that is not given in full to any."

Does this mean the Holy Spirit we have is only "in part", say for example 10, or 15, or 20 percent, but not  "in fullness" (for example 100%) and we will at the consumation receive 100 percent "fullness of spirit". 

Is this what earnest means?  We have been given "part" of the Holy Spirit and yet will receive "all" of the Holy Spirit?

or does earnest mean

we have received a "pledge", a promise, the Holy Spirit which guarantees more to come, but that more isn't "more of the Holy Spirit" but more meaning ,manifested  adoption as sons, full heirship.

So in other words what is it that we will receive in full?  the Holy Spirit or heirship?  or are these the same thing?

any thoughts?  hope this makes sense. 

« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 12:28:42 AM by rocky »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: earnest of spirit
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2007, 08:55:03 PM »

This was stated by arcturus on another thread and has got me thinking.

"Only Christ can give us conversion by giving us the deposit of His Spirit that is not given in full to any."

Does this mean the Holy Spirit we have is only "in part", say for example 10, or 15, or 20 percent, but not  "in fullness" (for example 100%) and we will at the consumation receive 100 percent "fullness of spirit". 

Is this what earnest means?  We have been given "part" of the Holy Spirit and yet will receive "all" of the Holy Spirit?

or does earnest mean

we have received a "pledge", a promise, by the Holy Spirit which guarantees more to come, but that more isn't "more of the Holy Spirit" but more meaning ,manifested  adoption as sons, full heirship.

So in other words what is it that we will receive in full?  the Holy Spirit or the promise of heirship?  or are these the same thing?

any thoughts?  hope this makes sense. 



We are not BORN of God, yet we are concieved of God by His holy spirit. The fullness to come is to be born of God into the kingdom, no longer able to sin, and powerful and invisible like the wind.

How much of the Holy spirit we have right now? I don't know, we are told we are given the EARNEST DOWNPAYMENT. So we don't have the FULNESS, but does that mean we only have part of the holy spirit not? Hmm not sure, i know we are not yet born of God, that for sure is not in its fullness, since we are bieng concieved. Other then that though, your guess is as good as mine.

God bless,

Alex
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rocky

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Re: earnest of spirit
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2007, 09:42:59 PM »

Here are some thoughts.  The "Earnest" is a pledge  or guarantee of a future reward.

The earnest of spirit is an assurance to believers of the redemption yet to come, a future receiving of the inheritance, or as Alex says a pledge of future "born again".

A pledge of future blessedness to come.  This blessedness is the new heaven and new earth promised to Abraham and his seed (the Christ and his chosen)

Could it be, that as a pledge/assurance that the "seed" would inherit the kingdom, the earnest of spirit was given.  Could this pledge be the gifts of the spirit?  Is receiving the earnest evidence of obeying the right message?? 

Act 5:32  And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Gal 3:5  He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Heb 2:3  How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Heb 2:4  God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Mar 16:17  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Mar 16:18  They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The  earnest of spirit (gifts of spirit) are evidence of obeying the correct gospel.  evidence of the promise to come?? 


2Co 1:22  Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2Co 5:5  Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1Co 12:7 But, unto each one, is given the manifesting of the Spirit, with a view to that which is profitable;



manifestig:

G5321
φανερωσις
phanerōsis
fan-er'-o-sis
From G5319; exhibition, that is, (figuratively) expression, (by extension) a bestowment: - manifestation.

any thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 10:03:26 PM by rocky »
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jER

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Re: earnest of spirit
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 01:40:13 AM »

Just a thought:

"For the earnest expectation of the creature (creation) waits for the manifestation of the Sons of God."  (Romans 8:19)
An Intense Anticipation before hand. (see - Philippians 1:20…and my hope)

"Who has also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts." (II Corinthians 1:22)
A pledge – in part; take pleasure in - for a three stranded cord, or braid cannot be easily broken. (see also II Corinthians 5:5…given to us; and Ephesians 1:14… of our inheritance)

"And not be his coming Only, but by the consolation wherewith He was comforted in you, when he told us your earnest desire, your mourning, your fervent mind toward me: so that I REJOICE THE MORE." (II Corinthians 7:7)
A longing for, as in a deep craving.

"But thanks, be to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you." (II Corinthians 8:16)
With an eagerness to "study," show yourselves approved.

"Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let it slip [or drift away.]" (Hebrews 2:1)
In quality and quantity, more abundantly.

It would appear that we are given a foot-stool in which to stand. A leg up, if you will, over others, before all are Reconciled.

 PRE – before hand and EMINENCE; a position of honor or distinction.

Hope to see you at Graduation - in His Glory!

-jER
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Arcturus

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Re: earnest of spirit
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 06:31:35 PM »

Hello Rocky

We will have the fullness of the measure of the Spirit of Christ when Eph 4 : 14 ...we may no longer be children, tossed like ships to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, the prey of the cunning and cleverness of unscrupulous men, gamblers engaged in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead.

We shall have the fullness of the measure of the Spirit of Christ if we raised to spiritual life in Christ in the Resurrection to Life with and in Christ rather than to judgment to bring us to righteousness in the second death LOF.

We shall have the fullness of the measure of the Spirit of Christ when we have ( Future after resurrection I believe in our born again state in the Kingdom of God ) developed and attained oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the full and accurate knowledge of the Son of God having arrived at really mature manhood and the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ's own perfection, the MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULLNESS OF THE CHRIST AND THE COMPLETENESS FOUND IN HIM. Eph 4 : 13

Please note. Caps used for emphasis not to demean or belittle or look down upon or shout at but simply to bring out emphasis as is in my thoughts not in any malice towards anyone.

Therefore as is taught here via Ray Smith, non are born again or are as yet saved.

Rocky, Jer and Alex, you do well to present the Word of God.

Peace to you all

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 06:33:50 PM by Arcturus »
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jacieleigh

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Re: earnest of spirit
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 09:10:40 PM »

I hope I am not intruding by writing in this area. This seems to be an intellectual discussion and I do not want to disrupt the flow of many who know far more than me. I was thinking of this topic as I read through it. Perhaps this life we live here is a sort of "practice field " for the life to come. Not that we can "earn" anything by our own actions or thoughts but that we are daily in a refining process. I don't believe we will fully "get it" here but will get knowledge, a heart for others and the many lessons, if you will, that God gives us opportunity to learn. For example; as many of you know my life has been touched recently by a suicide. It has been a heart breaking  and unbelievable experience. I do believe though that after this I will be more able to help someone else who is going through the same thing. Does this make sense? Please don't hesitate to correct me if I am going in the wrong direction. Thanks to you all.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: earnest of spirit
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2007, 07:17:25 PM »

Thank you arcturus, i still have a qeustion about this,

as the original poster stated;

are we given only part of the holy spirit atm? Is that why we sin, and Christ didn't? Because Christ was in the human flesh, yet He had the mind of God, and not a carnal mind. However we have a carnal mind, as well as the spirit of God working inside us, so does that mean we only have PART of God's spirit, since we are also partly carnaly minded because we were born of the flesh at birth?

Not sure if that made sence but if it did, please let me know, or if ray has anything specific dealing with this topic that you could point me to.

I know we are not saved, and i know we are not born of God, but only after the flesh is put off completely, and we overcome this life, are we finaly born into the kingdom of God as sons and daughters of God.

Thanks and God bless,

Alex
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Arcturus

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Re: earnest of spirit
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 09:02:12 PM »

Hello Alex

For me it is human (carnal) nature to want to compair. For example. I have 20% of the Spirit of Christ and those infants only 1 %....MMMmmmm looking good hey? NO! THAT is not the Spirit of Christ. Babylon also teaches to compare between those who need milk and those who can eat meat and all they serve up is lies illusions and corruption.

We know through the Scriptures that Christ gives one talent to one while to another five. What they do with what they have is what counts. For those who have more, more will be required.

I am not accusing you Alex of making comparisons please know this. I am simply pointing out the pit falls of doing so which are taught and trained into those who absorb the teachings in Babylon as I have witnessed and experienced it. So actually I am only sharing what I have to share and hope it helps or encourages you.

Paul wrote in 2 Cor 10 : 12 Not that we have the audacity to venture to class or even to compare ourselves with some who exalt and furnish testimonials for themselves! However, when they measure themselves with themselves and copare themselves with one another, they are without understanding and behave unwisely.

Our focus needs to be trust that God knows what He has given to each one of us -  and to that which God has given to us, we are accountable.

Jesus rebuked Peter for asking about John. What's is he to you. YOU follow ME!Jesus admonished.

So where ever our brother or sister is in terms of maturity or understanding, we can not alter the purpose or plan of Christ for their lives. We can save NO ONE. We have ourselves to judge and that if done correctly, that should about take all the time we have! :)

Peace to you brother

Arcturus :)
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Gregor

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Re: earnest of spirit
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 10:49:09 PM »

Good post Arcturus :)

1Cor.11:
[27] Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
[28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
[29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
[30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
[31] For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

Though the body is one, it is made up of many parts with many different functions, purposes, and positions of honour. Let us not "divide" the body with our comparisons that lead to pride and/or condemnation. This would be one form of eating/drinking in an unworthy manner.

G.
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Arcturus

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Re: earnest of spirit
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2007, 06:04:42 AM »

Hello Gregor

When we see ourselves as the BEAST then by CONTRAST we may begin to know, comprehend and see Christ. As Ray teaches and unveils, and I quote : Rom 2:1 “ Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself…”
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If you break one point, your GUILIY of all.  Back to Romans.

Rom. 2:1 “Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.”
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html

So I see that your contribution to this thread Gregor, ties in BEAUTIFULLY. I believe Babylon would dupe her followers into believing that they are now spiritual and are free from the above Words of Wisdom that unveil Gods Words. NO ONE has licence to Judge. All Judgement is reserved to and for the Son of God who comes not to deal with sin but : Heb 9 : 28...to bring to full salvation those who are eagerly, constantly, and patiently waithing for and expecting Him.

Thereafter is the White Throne Judgment in which His Word will be the judge of those who followed false words, other teachings and manifold deceptions masquerading as the Truth.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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