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Author Topic: How Long Has Man Been On Earth  (Read 9198 times)

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jerreye

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How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« on: September 29, 2008, 02:27:12 AM »

Hello all,

Perhaps I missed this somewhere in the conference videos?

Perhaps it wasn't mentioned, but what are Ray's thought's on when God created mankind?
 
I was hoping that this would have been answered...Anyone have any insight into this?
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 02:31:26 AM »

It wasn't mentioned in the Conference.  The next Bible study is planned to cover information Ray wanted to include but couldn't.  Perhaps this will be covered then.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

musicman

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 02:20:25 PM »

God created man on the sixth day.  Then He created Adam. . .on the sixth day.  OOOPs!!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 02:21:29 PM by musicman »
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chuckt

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 04:11:27 PM »

Quote
when God created mankind?

a long time age to us a nano second to him  :P ::) :o ;D
 

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David

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2008, 04:31:55 PM »

According to Anthropologists, the oldest remains of any modern human being are about 60,000 yrs old.
As Ray said in the conference, proven scientific method and discovery doesn't lie, and neither do the scriptures.
Some biologists have claimed that there are remains over 1 million years old, but many biologists refer to pre human bi pedal primates as "human". Many anthropologists find this to be spurious saying that these bi pedal species were not human, that they did not overlap modern man, that there is no evidence of any interbreeing between the two, that they lived for a time and became extinct, to be replaced many thousands of years later by modern human beings.
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jerreye

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2008, 06:06:37 PM »

Yes, radio carbon dating is good for up to 50,000 - 60,000 years or so, since the remaining "half-life" will be down to about 0.1% at this age! So after 50,000 years or so, it is completely unreliable.

I look forward to hear what Ray has to say at his bible study.
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gmik

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2008, 06:54:12 PM »

Ray did mention at the conference that the Clovis Indians lived about 13,000 years ago.

I just had results of my Dad's DNA for an ancestry check.  It said our haplogroup was from the Gravittians in the Ukraine area around 40,000 years ago. A couple of weeks ago I wouldn't have believed it, now, I am not so sure! :o

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enigmoxical

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 07:25:52 PM »

God created man on the sixth day.  Then He created Adam. . .on the sixth day.  OOOPs!!
The Hebrew word "adam" can also refer to mankind in general, not just Eve's husband Adam. The Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary tells this:

Adam means man, and in many places the Hebrew word refers to mankind in general. Genesis 1:27, for example, says, “So God created man [adam] in His own image; He created him in the image of God; He created them male and female [see also Genesis 5:2; 6:1]. Adam is also used of the first man, either with the article as “the man” (Genesis 2:15,16) or as the name “Adam” (Genesis 4:1,25; 5:3,4). Finally, the term can refer to a member of the human race, “a man” (e.g., Genesis 2:5, “there was no man to work the ground”).

"Six" is the number of man. And because of this, I believe we are still in the sixth day. For when was there ever a point in time when God stopped creating men?

“Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One fashion us in the womb? (Job 31:15)

“Yet He is not partial to princes, nor dies He regard the rich more than the poor; for they are all the work of His hands.” (Job 34:19)

“Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? (Malachi 2:10)


Peace
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Heidi

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2008, 11:29:01 PM »

I believe we are in the 7th day.....day of rest....Christ is our Sabbath.  Will do some studying on this and get back with scriptures....just IMO.

Ray did a paper on the Sabbath day....made perfect sence to my spirit.

Heidi
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James

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 12:15:24 AM »

Very interesting topic(s) to me....the time(s) of creation, and the 7th day, etc.  I'm personally quite staunch in sticking with scripture, I just think there's (obviously) much in scripture that we haven't typically understood (especially those like me that spent years in mainstream churchianity).  So, I think as Ray said, scripture doesn't lie;  but, it might be saying a WHOLE lot more than we've recognized...but it's still in the scripture.  I've been doing quite a bit of thinking about the ages, creation, the age of creation, so keep it coming!  One thing I appreciate about this site is its reference to and reliance on scripture as well as the revelation of the Spirit...not one or the other.  I was looking at a forum recently that focuses on "love", but it seems they're all too willing to dismiss scripture and the Bible in general for their own thoughts and imaginations.  Thankfully not the case here.  God's blessing, James.
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mharrell08

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 12:40:06 AM »


Adam means man, and in many places the Hebrew word refers to mankind in general. Genesis 1:27, for example, says, “So God created man [adam] in His own image; He created him in the image of God; He created them male and female [see also Genesis 5:2; 6:1]. Adam is also used of the first man, either with the article as “the man” (Genesis 2:15,16) or as the name “Adam” (Genesis 4:1,25; 5:3,4). Finally, the term can refer to a member of the human race, “a man” (e.g., Genesis 2:5, “there was no man to work the ground”).

"Six" is the number of man. And because of this, I believe we are still in the sixth day. For when was there ever a point in time when God stopped creating men?

“Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One fashion us in the womb? (Job 31:15)

“Yet He is not partial to princes, nor dies He regard the rich more than the poor; for they are all the work of His hands.” (Job 34:19)

“Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? (Malachi 2:10)


Peace


Here is an excerpt from Ray's bible study regarding 'Keeping the Sabbath':

  GOD IS YET CEASING FROM THE WORKS HE COMPLETED


Gen 2:2  And F I N I S H I N G is the Elohim, on the sixth day, His works which He does.   And ceasing is He on the seventh day from ALL HIS W O R K which He does.” (Concordant Version)

The works ARE finished and God IS ceasing from all those works of physical creation of the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that in them is. 

Now all this ties in with keeping the seventh day, a day of rest.  If God is still ceasing from all the works that were finished, He does that on the seventh day. 
This still must be the seventh day of God’s ceasing! 

We don’t read of anything where God began creating some other part of the physical universe on the eighth day or the ninth day or any such thing, nowhere.  We are now into God’s SPIRITUAL creation… making man in God’s very own spiritual image.

The idea behind the seventh day is it represents rest.  Israel was told to rest every seventh day of a weekly cycle.  But it represents something.  It was a law, they had to rest, it’s the forth commandment, it’s a law.

Heb 10:1  For the law (part of the... remember the Sabbath and keep it holy) having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things…

The shadow is not the image itself.  So in some ways it’s almost worthless, except it points you to something. 



Marques
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enigmoxical

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 01:09:04 AM »

I believe we are in the 7th day.....day of rest....Christ is our Sabbath.  Will do some studying on this and get back with scriptures....just IMO.

Ray did a paper on the Sabbath day....made perfect sence to my spirit.

Heidi
I agree that when we overcome the mark of the beast, we do enter into Christ's rest; we are now seated with Him in heavenly places (Eph. 2:6). But this referring to our renewed state of mind and spirit (Rom. 8:6). Compare this with those who worship the image of the beast - they have no rest day or night (Rev. 14:11). But scripture convinces me that the seventh day will not begin until all enemies have been subdued and God is all in all (I Cor. 15:28). The number seven denotes completion. And God's plan will not be completely fulfilled until every knee bows and every tongue confesses His Son (Php. 2:9-11). It is also worth mentioning that the phrase "all in all" is exemplified by the primary Greek preposition en (Strong's G#1722), which denotes a (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of REST.

"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." (Rom. 8:19-25)

Peace
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enigmoxical

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 01:14:31 AM »

And yes, I DO believe that from God's perspective, all of His works HAVE been completed. He has already declared the end from the beginning. We (meaning mankind) just haven't caught up to Him yet.

Does this make sense?

Peace
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mharrell08

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 01:20:20 AM »

I agree that when we overcome the mark of the beast, we do enter into Christ's rest; we are now seated with Him in heavenly places (Eph. 2:6). But this referring to our renewed state of mind and spirit (Rom. 8:6). Compare this with those who worship the image of the beast - they have no rest day or night (Rev. 14:11). But scripture convinces me that the seventh day will not begin until all enemies have been subdued and God is all in all (I Cor. 15:28). The number seven denotes completion. And God's plan will not be completely fulfilled until every knee bows and every tongue confesses His Son (Php. 2:9-11). It is also worth mentioning that the phrase "all in all" is exemplified by the primary Greek preposition en (Strong's G#1722), which denotes a (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of REST.

"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." (Rom. 8:19-25)

Peace

Hello Enigmoxical,

Since there seems to be difference of opinion in your beliefs/comments compared to the papers and studies that Ray has done, have you emailed him to ask about it?


Marques


P.S.  I saw your last comment right before posting. I don't entirely get what you're saying but maybe another member of the forum can help in that regard.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 11:59:26 AM »

And yes, I DO believe that from God's perspective, all of His works HAVE been completed. He has already declared the end from the beginning. We (meaning mankind) just haven't caught up to Him yet.

Does this make sense?

Peace

Actually it does, and was kind of my thoughts reading along.  Of course, I'm not smart enough to make "my kinda knowing what you're talking about" very meaningful.   :D 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

enigmoxical

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 07:18:57 PM »

I agree that when we overcome the mark of the beast, we do enter into Christ's rest; we are now seated with Him in heavenly places (Eph. 2:6). But this referring to our renewed state of mind and spirit (Rom. 8:6). Compare this with those who worship the image of the beast - they have no rest day or night (Rev. 14:11). But scripture convinces me that the seventh day will not begin until all enemies have been subdued and God is all in all (I Cor. 15:28). The number seven denotes completion. And God's plan will not be completely fulfilled until every knee bows and every tongue confesses His Son (Php. 2:9-11). It is also worth mentioning that the phrase "all in all" is exemplified by the primary Greek preposition en (Strong's G#1722), which denotes a (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of REST.

"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." (Rom. 8:19-25)

Peace

Hello Enigmoxical,

Since there seems to be difference of opinion in your beliefs/comments compared to the papers and studies that Ray has done, have you emailed him to ask about it?


Marques


P.S.  I saw your last comment right before posting. I don't entirely get what you're saying but maybe another member of the forum can help in that regard.
I don't believe Ray and I are in disagreement about this at all, Marques, especially after watching the videos from the Nashville Conference. In one of the sessions he explained that the creation was finished even BEFORE there was a first day: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." And THEN God said... (v 3). Also, what does John tell us about Christ? That He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The works ARE finished; God has already purposed to do what He will. It is now just a matter of time before they are fulfilled.

Here is further evidence that we are still in the sixth day:

"And God said, let Us make man in Our image..." (Gen. 1:26)

Now, were Adam and Eve created in the very image of God way back in Genesis? Fundamentalists say yes, absolutely! But even Ray teaches that they were not. The creature [man] was first made subject to vanity (Rom. 8:20). The first vessel [again speaking of man - see Rom. 9:20] was marred [by design] in the hand of the Potter (Jer. 18:4). So what does God do? He creates ANOTHER one. And this is the same point Paul makes in I Cor. 15:

"It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body." (v. 42-44)

We will not be fully created in God's very image until this corruption puts on incorruption, and this mortality puts on immortality (v. 53). And all of this is happening on which day? Day six.  ;)

Peace
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hillsbororiver

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 07:58:59 PM »

That is an interesting point Enigmoxical, I have come to see and believe the OT is not only a history but in fact also a prophecy of what is to come....

Could it be that "Let there be Light" (Gen 1:3) is also a prophecy of the Lord's return?

Peace,

Joe
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mharrell08

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 09:35:40 PM »

Here is further evidence that we are still in the sixth day:


From Keeping the Sabbath Day bible study:

                                                  GOD IS YET CEASING FROM THE WORKS HE COMPLETED

Gen 2:2  And F I N I S H I N G is the Elohim, on the sixth day, His works which He does.   And ceasing is He on the seventh day from ALL HIS W O R K which He does.” (Concordant Version)

The works ARE finished and God IS ceasing from all those works of physical creation of the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that in them is. 

Now all this ties in with keeping the seventh day, a day of rest.  If God is still ceasing from all the works that were finished, He does that on the seventh day. 
This still must be the seventh day of God’s ceasing! 

We don’t read of anything where God began creating some other part of the physical universe on the eighth day or the ninth day or any such thing, nowhere.  We are now into God’s SPIRITUAL creation… making man in God’s very own spiritual image.


Hello Enigmoxical,

This is what I was referring to when I stated a disagreement with Ray's teachings/studies.

I do understand what you're stating but the scriptures state God is ceasing from his work [Heb 4:3 … although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.] And in light of recent posts, we can agree to disagree peaceably.  There is no need to go back and forth. Thanks

Thanks,

Marques
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enigmoxical

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 11:34:22 PM »

That is an interesting point Enigmoxical, I have come to see and believe the OT is not only a history but in fact also a prophecy of what is to come....

Could it be that "Let there be Light" (Gen 1:3) is also a prophecy of the Lord's return?

Peace,

Joe
In his concordant commentary to the book of Genesis (p. 18), A. E. Knoch has this to say:

"God's revelation is on a higher spiritual plane than other literature. Especially in prophecy, both past and future, God sometimes speaks of things as if they are being enacted BEFORE OUR EYES." [emphasis added]

I remember Ray saying something to the effect that "we haven't even scratched the surface" of the Genesis account. And I agree.

Peace
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Heidi

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Re: How Long Has Man Been On Earth
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2008, 12:18:26 AM »

Hi there enigmoxical....If God is resting, being the 7th day,  how can it be that we (humans) are still stuck in the 6th day.  It does not make any sense.  I believe that because God is still creating humans into the image of the Son, that the 7th day will be completed and we all move onto the 8th day and so on and so on.

Ray says (and the Word witnesses to the fact) that:Now all this ties in with keeping the seventh day, a day of rest.  If God is still ceasing from all the works that were finished, He does that on the seventh day.  This still must be the seventh day of God's ceasing! 

I think it is important to apply common seance in the matter and therefor it would not make any seance that we are a day behind God......for as He is so are we in the world.

I would appreciate some input from the mods if this thought is going the right way.

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