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Author Topic: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4  (Read 7725 times)

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ecrement

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Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« on: February 27, 2009, 09:05:45 PM »

Its been always taught Jesus ministry last 3 1/2 years, it comes to my attention that it may have been only 70 weeks or just two passovers and not three passover in order to have 3 1/2 years. I understand to put all gospels in a timeline is very difficult. In John 6:4 speaks of a passover Jesus does not attend He was Ministering some where else at the passover time. What do other think on this subject, remembering we need two wittiness to have a truth.
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Beloved

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2009, 09:36:06 PM »

I think it is presumptive to say John 6:4 speaks of a Passover that He did not attend,...... it merely states that passover was near....all of these feasts were shadows....He after all is the real thing.

I do not see any point of discussing things like this. John himself stated that he did not write everything down that the Savior did. So why are you looking into all of this minutia.   This sounds like doubt on your part. Are you looking to find "sin" in Him?

I neither have the time or interest to research this for you. I suggest that you find the two scriptures that proves that He did not attend the Passover. Like Ray says in one of his writings ...we do not need to be defensive.....the Truth always stands.

beloved


,
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 07:43:17 PM by Beloved »
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aqrinc

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2009, 10:53:29 PM »

Hi Caleb,

Long time since you last visited, i hope all is well with you.

On your question, i do not see anywhere in Scripture where it states Jesus only attended 2 passovers. If you do have some Scriptures; would you mind posting it or Pm me if possible. The question is a bit strange; are you doing some particular study on this or just curious.

John 6:4  And the Passover was near, a feast of the Jews.


george. :)

Its been always taught Jesus ministry last 3 1/2 years, it comes to my attention that it may have been only 70 weeks or just two passovers and not three passover in order to have 3 1/2 years. I understand to put all gospels in a timeline is very difficult. In John 6:4 speaks of a passover Jesus does not attend He was Ministering some where else at the passover time. What do other think on this subject, remembering we need two wittiness to have a truth.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 12:51:39 AM by aqr »
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kenny

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 09:49:18 AM »

with the symbolism of the passover did he really miss one, he just wasn't there physically at the one he supposedly missed, i have got to say a lot of what i used to take literal are not and that whole meal seams to be symbolic. surly ray has something on this

has anybody have a link/
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2009, 01:12:24 PM »

Often the scriptures are speaking to us even in things that are not written if we can discern a pattern that has been previously established.

Ecc 1:9  The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

It appears that there are 3 Passovers in the Gospel of John so how could it be that even if Jesus did not attend the the second one somehow it affects the length of His ministry? If my niece had 3 birthdays and I only attended 2 of her birthday parties (missing the second but attending the 1st and the 3rd does that make her only 2 years old? Now I am not saying definitively that Jesus did or didn't attend the Passover of John 6:4 but neither do the scriptures. I did find something interesting in regard to a "missed" or delayed Passover in 2Chronicles Chapter 30 though....

 2 Chronicles 30

 1And Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and wrote letters also to Ephraim and Manasseh, that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel.

 2For the king had taken counsel, and his princes, and all the congregation in Jerusalem, to keep the passover in the second month.

Whoa! Isn't it written that Passover was to be in the first month? [Lev 23:5  In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.]

Back to Chronicles;

 3For they could not keep it at that time, because the priests had not sanctified themselves sufficiently, neither had the people gathered themselves together to Jerusalem.

 4And the thing pleased the king and all the congregation.

 5So they established a decree to make proclamation throughout all Israel, from Beersheba even to Dan, that they should come to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel at Jerusalem: for they had not done it of a long time in such sort as it was written.

 6So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.

 7And be not ye like your fathers, and like your brethren, which trespassed against the LORD God of their fathers, who therefore gave them up to desolation, as ye see.

 8Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.

 9For if ye turn again unto the LORD, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the LORD your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.

 10So the posts passed from city to city through the country of Ephraim and Manasseh even unto Zebulun: but they laughed them to scorn, and mocked them.

Isn't it interesting that when this message from Hezekiah was delivered in regard to this second month Passover it was met with scorn and ridicule? Kind of like giving the message of Universal salvation to the eternal hell/torment believers who hold that mankind is only given one shot, in this life, of obtaining salvation and immortality.

Look at this;


2Ch 30:18 For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one

2Ch 30:19 That prepareth his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.

2Ch 30:20 And the LORD hearkened to Hezekiah, and healed the people.

It is also very interesting that in John the Lord shared a supper with His disciples but in the other 3 Gospels He shared the Passover supper, could it be that this is telling us that the death of Christ the real Passover Lamb died once but it had a twofold or double effect? The salvation (of His elect) at His return and the 1st resurrection and also the salvation of those who must first experience the second death but ultimately obtain perfection and immortality as well. One Sacrifice with a 2 part (or double) result!

Peace,

Joe


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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2009, 04:31:12 PM »

Quote
It is also very interesting that in John the Lord shared a supper with His disciples but in the other 3 Gospels He shared the Passover supper, could it be that this is telling us that the death of Christ the real Passover Lamb died once but it had a twofold or double effect? The salvation (of His elect) at His return and the 1st resurrection and also the salvation of those who must first experience the second death but ultimately obtain perfection and immortality as well. One Sacrifice with a 2 part (or double) result!

I don't see it Joe. All four gospels are talking about the exact same events in the same order.

Quote
the Lord shared a supper
and
Quote
He shared the Passover supper

These refer to the same supper, not two suppers, unless I'm misunderstanding your intent.

Dennis
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2009, 05:24:17 PM »

Hi Dennis,

Let's review the scriptures that speak to this;


Mat 26:17  Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
 
Mat 26:18  And he said, Go into the city to such a man and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
 
Mat 26:19  And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.

 
Mar 14:12  And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
 
Mar 14:13  And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
 
Mar 14:14  And wheresoever he shall go say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
 
Mar 14:15  And he will show you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.



Luk 22:8  And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
 
Luk 22:9  And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
 
Luk 22:10  And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
 
Luk 22:11  And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
 
Luk 22:12  And he shall show you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
 
Luk 22:13  And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
 
Luk 22:14  And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
 
Luk 22:15  And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

Now John's account;

Joh 13:1  Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
 
Joh 13:2  And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;
 
Joh 13:3  Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
 
Joh 13:4  He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.

We see in verse 1; before the Passover and in verse 4 only a supper is mentioned not the Passover supper.

There is more;


Joh 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
 
Joh 19:13  When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
 
Joh 19:14  And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

Interesting isn't it? In the first 3 Gospels Jesus partakes of the Passover supper with His disciples in the Gospel of John He is the Passover! Dying on that very day.....

Peace,

Joe

 
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2009, 05:45:38 PM »

I want to add another bit for consideration here, we have the Gospels of Matthew, Mark & Luke showing a sharing of Passover but in John Jesus is about as alone as anyone could possibly be, abandoned by His friends, scourged, mocked, etc. When Jesus instructed them to eat of His body could that be spiritually saying partake of my suffering, I am dying for you now you can (and will) die for me (daily)...

He is our example in all things;


Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Mat 16:24  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luk 9:23  And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luk 9:24  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

It is all about sacrificing the flesh to gain the Spirit. If not in this age most certainly in the next.

Peace,

Joe



 
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mharrell08

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2009, 06:32:09 PM »

Interesting isn't it? In the first 3 Gospels Jesus partakes of the Passover supper with His disciples in the Gospel of John He is the Passover! Dying on that very day.....


Hey Joe,

While John has a different account, Christ is still the spiritual reality of the physical Passover in all of Matt, Mark, & Luke, right?

It is also very interesting that in John the Lord shared a supper with His disciples but in the other 3 Gospels He shared the Passover supper, could it be that this is telling us that the death of Christ the real Passover Lamb died once but it had a twofold or double effect? The salvation (of His elect) at His return and the 1st resurrection and also the salvation of those who must first experience the second death but ultimately obtain perfection and immortality as well. One Sacrifice with a 2 part (or double) result!


Could you help me understand how John's testimony of the last supper and Matt, Mark, & Luke's accounts of Passover are a 'double effect'? I thought the scriptures states that the one sacrifice [Christ] was for the remission of all sins in all mankind, not 2 parts [Matt 26:28 & 1 Cor 5:7]. Though we know every man (& woman) is saved in their own order [1 Cor 15:23 & 1 Cor 3:10-15].

Just trying to keep track with what exactly you're saying.

Thanks,

Marques
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2009, 08:51:05 PM »

Marques,

I believe you answered your own question within your post.  ;) Yes, it is all about Christ first and foremost but as Ray writes throughout the LOF series (and beyond) the Lord is presently assembling His elect to carry forth the work that He began, the salvation of all! But there are two distinct stages/works/times. One ultimate sacrifice opened the door to man's salvation but He shares that work with those He chose to judge/purge now.

Rodger, you added to the scriptures as it is not mentioned Jesus ate Passover supper with the disciples, it is written they ate before Passover.

If indeed they ate the Passover supper the day before Christ stood before Pilate how could the following also be true?


Joh 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
 
Joh 19:13  When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
 
Joh 19:14  And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


Peace,

Joe
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mharrell08

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2009, 09:50:00 PM »

Marques,

I believe you answered your own question within your post.  ;) Yes, it is all about Christ first and foremost but as Ray writes throughout the LOF series (and beyond) the Lord is presently assembling His elect to carry forth the work that He began, the salvation of all! But there are two distinct stages/works/times. One ultimate sacrifice opened the door to man's salvation but He shares that work with those He chose to judge/purge now.

Rodger, you added to the scriptures as it is not mentioned Jesus ate Passover supper with the disciples, it is written they ate before Passover.

If indeed they ate the Passover supper the day before Christ stood before Pilate how could the following also be true?


Joh 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
 
Joh 19:13  When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
 
Joh 19:14  And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


Peace,

Joe


What Rodger is pointing out is that the 'supper' mentioned in John 13 is the same passover supper mentioned in Matt 26, Mark 14, & Luke 22...here are witnesses to 2 events that are recorded in all 4 books:

Jesus stating at the Passover that one of the disciples would betray Him

Matt 26:17 & 21  Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus...And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

Mark 14:12 & 18  And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover...And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me

Luke 22:15 & 21  And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer...But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.

John 13:21  When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.



Jesus stating Peter would deny Him 3 times before the cock crowed

(Matt, Mark, & Luke all mention Passover earlier in same chapters; John says 'supper')

Matt 26:34  Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Mark 14:30  And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Luke 22:34  And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

John 13:38  Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.


One other thing...if John is stating in his accounts these events happening on a different day, that would be John saying Christ died on a different day than what Matt, Mark, & Luke stated...as Christ was taken into captivity that night after the Passover and crucified the next day as it was light out.

Just some things I noticed... :)


Marques
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EKnight

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2009, 10:12:04 PM »

I don't know anything about Passover and the Jewish laws so forgive me if this sounds stupid but, is it possible that in....

Joh 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

....that it was the first day of the feast but those that led Jesus just had not yet eaten their passover meal?  Not all meals have to be eaten at the same time do they?  And Christ was taken into custody that same day and then crucified the following day?

I could be totally off here because like I said, I truly have no knowledge of the rules of Passover.  ??? ???

Eileen

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Akira329

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 12:21:33 AM »

Hey Eileen!
Read Exodus chapter 12
It shows a good explanation of the passover and feast of unleavened bread.
Remember: Jesus is our passover lamb.
1Co 5:6  Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7  Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8  Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Antaiwan
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 09:12:29 AM »

Hi Folks,

I appreciate the responses here very much, any time I post something such as this my intent is not to teach or convince or even seek agreement, my motivation is for us to open our bibles and prayerfully seek His wisdom, certainly not mine.

When you read through the first 3 Gospels it is absolutely clear Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover supper together, read through it again, carefully. In the John account it is not stated that this was the Passover supper, it is only written as a supper. Now if we contemplate why there is a difference rather than bend over backwards attempting to make them harmonious we just might be missing the reason the Spirit inspired John to write the words the way he did. It would appear that there is a one day difference in the accounts, remember these Spirit inspired Words do not necessarily have to be literal, the spiritual Truths contained in His Word are much more powerful than any historical timeline.

We know that there is one process the Lord is using to bring forth His elect and another process Christ and His elect will employ to bring humanity into His Kingdom. Getting back to this apparent one day difference between John and the other Gospels and how this may (on a deeper level) be telling us the time lapse between these two works of salvation (even though only one sacrifice by our Lord was required). It is written that there are two resurrections or harvests but that ultimately the death of our Lord is sufficient for both groups, what time frame seperates these two events?

Could Peter be clueing us in on what message hides behind this one day difference and what is might possibly represent?


2Pe 3:8  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Keep this in mind as well;
 
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The entire bible is a parable....

Peace,

Joe



   
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Kat

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 11:50:39 AM »


For Jesus to have eating the Passover meal a day early would have been very significant as the Jews were sticklers about keeping their rituals to the letter.  I find that it not being noted in the Scriptures indicative that He did not do anything unusual.

The Passover is not a Holy day to the Jews as the Sabbath is, it is only considered a 'feast day.'  Neither was there a preparation day for the Passover, as it always is for the Sabbath.  The preparing and making ready the Passover (as it was not a Holy day)was on the same day it was eaten.  So could it be that this day in question, they were preparing the Passover meal as well as preparing for the Sabbath.  So that could be why we have this statement in John.

John 19:14  And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

Since the Jewish start their day at sundown.  Jesus and His disciples could have eating their Passover meal in the evening and the Passover would still be taking place the day of His trial.  The course of events could have happened as it is in the Scripture with the weekly sabbath day (Holy day) drawing on and it being the end of that Passover day, when Jesus was on the cross.

Now this is just what I understand and hope it helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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hillsbororiver

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2009, 12:28:34 PM »

Hi Kat,

Thank you for your input, my point is that these accounts are much deeper than some literal, historical biography of physical events that transpired 2000 years ago. There are spiritual meanings behind these accounts that I believe lie beneath the surface.

In one of my earlier posts on this subject (in this thread) I referenced Christianity's belief that humanity has one shot at being "saved" and that this opportunity is presented in this age and this age only, we know better than that, what I think I am seeing in this "day difference" is another witness that the sacrifice of Christ covers those in the 1st and the 2nd resurrection, not only the first and everyone else is doomed "forever." The Passover Lamb covers both (all) ages/resurrections!

Here is another interesting bit since you mentioned John 19:14;


Joh 19:14  And it was the preparation of the passover and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

Compare that with;

Mar 15:25  And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.

I am not going to speculate here what this might mean other than I am absolutely sure the Holy Spirit did not make a mistake and that there is a deeper meaning within these verses than what time of day it might have been.

Back in December of 2006 I noticed how John's account of Jesus cleaning the Temple differed from the other Gospels, I may not have nailed the premis but there is something going on within these Gospels that is not visible to the naked, physical eye.

Maybe you remember it;


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2769.0.html

Thank you and everyone else for your diligent replies.

Peace,

Joe

 

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mharrell08

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2009, 12:52:43 PM »

Keep this in mind as well;
 
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.[/color]


Hello Joe,

The one aspect regarding this passage is that is may not be entirely scriptural:

Excerpt from 'How We Got the Bible' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.15.html):

Now for the last few years Iíve been looking at all these things, about the return of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom and all these things.  I havenít written to much about that yet.  You know why?  Because I donít understand it!  But now Iím getting there and here is a Scripture in Revelation.

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
v. 3  And he cast him into the bottomless pit (abyss), and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little season.

That verse gives me a problem, it would take a long time to explain why.  Believe me most people that teach and write books on these prophecies, donít have a clue.  Not only do they not have the answers, they donít even know what the problems are.   
But these verses here;

Rev 20:4  ÖAnd they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Both of these verses can not be true, there is a problem here.  I racked my brain, in my spare time, but I kept it in the back of my mind for a long time.  There is a problem, that wonít work and I canít make it work.  It doesnít fit, there is no way to make this thing fit.  Then some months ago, now I know why it, ďBut the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finishedĒ wonít fit.  Itís not Scripture!  Tischendorf has it right there.

-Rev. 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished
Itís not in the Sinaiticus.  So I said, okay now weíre moving again.  Weíre a little closer to the Truth.



Now in regards to John 19:14 & Mark 15:25, what is the standard numbered hour system for the ancient Jews? What I mean is, at what time does the numbering start (1st hour, 3rd hour, sixth hour, etc.) and when does it end and what numbers are used? Hope that makes sense...I'm just trying to understand, no offense.


Marques
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Kat

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2009, 12:59:15 PM »


Hi Joe,

Quote
my point is that these accounts are much deeper than some literal, historical biography of physical events that transpired 2000 years ago. There are spiritual meanings behind these accounts that I believe lie beneath the surface.


I totally agree that there are spiritual meaning to all Scripture, beyond the physical.  But I do believe that we need to have the physical worked out correctly first, then comes the spiritual.  I was just sharing my understanding of those 'feast' and 'Holy' days from my years in WWCG.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

ecrement

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2009, 06:10:19 PM »

Tradition has Him ministering for Three Half years, has this been documented fact or is their another time to consider. One fact is His second year of ministry was silent or not much happen during this year. What do you think Jesus Ministry time was according to the gospels.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Why Did Jesus Miss one Passover? John 6:4
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2009, 06:33:33 PM »

Keep this in mind as well;
 
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.[/color]


Hello Joe,

The one aspect regarding this passage is that is may not be entirely scriptural:

Excerpt from 'How We Got the Bible' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.15.html):

Now for the last few years Iíve been looking at all these things, about the return of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom and all these things.  I havenít written to much about that yet.  You know why?  Because I donít understand it!  But now Iím getting there and here is a Scripture in Revelation.

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
v. 3  And he cast him into the bottomless pit (abyss), and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little season.

That verse gives me a problem, it would take a long time to explain why.  Believe me most people that teach and write books on these prophecies, donít have a clue.  Not only do they not have the answers, they donít even know what the problems are.   
But these verses here;

Rev 20:4  ÖAnd they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Both of these verses can not be true, there is a problem here.  I racked my brain, in my spare time, but I kept it in the back of my mind for a long time.  There is a problem, that wonít work and I canít make it work.  It doesnít fit, there is no way to make this thing fit.  Then some months ago, now I know why it, ďBut the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finishedĒ wonít fit.  Itís not Scripture!  Tischendorf has it right there.

-Rev. 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished
Itís not in the Sinaiticus.  So I said, okay now weíre moving again.  Weíre a little closer to the Truth.



Now in regards to John 19:14 & Mark 15:25, what is the standard numbered hour system for the ancient Jews? What I mean is, at what time does the numbering start (1st hour, 3rd hour, sixth hour, etc.) and when does it end and what numbers are used? Hope that makes sense...I'm just trying to understand, no offense.


Marques

Hi Marques,

Your point about Rev 20:5 is well taken, I wish Ray had expounded on this a little more as this chapter does appear to say that those who are not a part of the first resurrection are raised up after the thousand years.

Here is the entire chapter without verse 5;


 Revelation 20

 1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 5 Deleted

 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

It seems that this is saying that after the Millennium there will be another resurrection, doesn't it? I am open to a better interpretation always....

As far as your second point about when the Jewish day begins it actually begins at sunset, that is a new day (24 hour cycle). Entire Jewish days though are divided by nightime (first) daytime (second) so if the sun rises at 6 A.M. the third hour of the day would be 9:00 A.M.

No offense taken!  ;)

Peace,

Joe

P.S. Hopefully I will be able to address more comments later.



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