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Author Topic: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul  (Read 3285 times)

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winner08

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Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« on: March 10, 2009, 08:29:59 PM »

Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul. I don't understand this scripture. I thought that the body is like our outer shell and when God breaths His Spirit into the body, then it becomes a living soul. So when a living being is destroyed (dies) then he is no longer a living soul but a dead soul therefore the soul is destroyed along with the body. Now I do understand that the spirit goes back to God and once the spirit is gone the living soul is  dead. Or is the word soul here means spirit?? I'm sorry, I am probable confusing y'all. I know I just confused myself. ??? ??? ???

Darren
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 08:50:49 PM »

Hi Darren,

The verse you question isn't exactly phrased like you quoted;

Mat 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Peace,

Joe
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daywalker

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 09:02:30 PM »

Hello Darren,

From the Concordant Literal Version:

Mat 10:28 "And do not fear those who are killing the body, yet are not able to kill the soul. Yet be fearing Him, rather, Who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna."

Ray answers your question in part D4 of his Lake of Fire Series.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm

If you haven't read the previous parts, then I would recommend doing so, for a complete understanding.


- Daywalker.

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Kat

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 09:06:30 PM »


Hi Darren,

Here are a couple of places where Ray covers this verse.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm ----------------

Matt. 10:28 & Luke 12:5

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell [Gehenna]; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

Luke's account is the same as Matthew's, however, it is a shorter version. From Matthew we learn that God is "able to destroy" our very soul in Gehenna. But that is not a wicked thing, but a good thing. It is a good thing to loose (apollumi-destroy) our carnal soul for God's sake, and this destruction of the soul for God takes place in Gehenne. See Matt. 10:39 losing (destroying, "mortifying the deeds of the body" Rom. 8:13) takes place in spiritual Gehenna, Verse 28.


http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm ------------------

MAYBE THE MOST ENIGMATIC SCRIPTURE IN ALL THE BIBLE

Jesus told His disciples in this sermon that if they called a brother "fool" they would be in danger of "Gehenna fire." What kind of danger is that. How does this Gehenna fire actually judge us. Is there anywhere that we are told how Gehenna judges us to make us "righteous?" There is a verse that specifically addresses what Gehenna accomplishes, but it is one of the least understood verses in all Scripture:

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna fire]" (Matt. 10:28).  

The biggest problem in understanding this verse, is to understand who this verse is talking about. The Church will tell you that it is talking about those who will suffer loss of salvation in the eternal fires of hell. Yet nothing could be further from the truth. This verse was addressed directly to and about the 12 apostles, and is applied to all Christ's disciples throughout all generations.

Go back to the first verse of chapter 10 for the contextual proof that Jesus is instructing his Apostles only in this teaching: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them [no one else, just 'them,' just the twelve apostles], saying..." And Jesus continues speaking unbroken all the way to the eleventh chapter, to His twelve apostles only.

If it is the world of unrepentant sinners that are to "fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell," then why oh why didn't Jesus make this clear to His apostles in these verses? But no, Jesus warned His apostles that they are to be the ones fearing. Notice:

"...He called unto Himself His twelve disciples... These twelve Jesus sent forth and commanded them saying... [Jesus continues speaking to His apostles only] ...And fear not them [their enemies and persecutors] which kill the body [their body; your body], but are not able to kill the soul [your soul]: but rather fear Him [you twelve apostles] which is able to destroy both soul and body [both YOUR soul and YOUR body] in hell [Gehenna fire]" (Matt. 10:1, 5, & 28).

Assuredly, Jesus was not warning the wicked to not fear the wicked who, when they kill the wicked cannot kill the soul... No, this instruction is for believers.

Gehenna is judgment. It is not torture in literal fire. It is judgment upon God's Elect to spiritually purify them; to make them holy and blameless; and to make them strong. Gehenna speaks of judgment, and Jesus taught that God is "able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." How are we (God's Elect) presently being destroyed in both body and soul? Notice what Jesus said a few verses after He made this statement:

"He that finds his life [Gk: 'psuche' - soul, not zoe which is life] shall lose it: and he that loses his life [soul] for My sake shall find it" (Matt. 10:39).

We must be spiritually baptized into Christ's death, and we must also LOSE OUR SOUL for Christ's sake.

Learn to read Scriptures accurately and precisely. Take note that Jesus did NOT say "And fear not them which KILL the body, but are not able to KILL the soul, but rather fear Him which is able to KILL both soul and body in hell [Gk: Gehenna]." No, Jesus did NOT say that, but it is assumed that He either said that or at least meant that. No, He did not. Jesus said: "And fear not them which KILL the body, but are not able to KILL the soul, but rather fear Him which is able to DESTROY both soul and body in hell [Gk: Gehenna]."

Why the switch? Jesus switches from "kill" to "destroy."

It is our "soul" that God is more interested in than our "life." An insane person may have a perfectly healthy life, but his soul is severely damaged. A comatose person may be in perfect physical health and be very much "alive," but possesses virtually no soul-conscious awareness, character, love, emotions, knowledge, hopes and dreams, memories, etc.

Now then, "destroy" in verse 28 is the Greek word 'appolumi' and it means: DESTROY, PARISH, LOSE. Wow! Are you seeing this? How much easier my job would be if only the translators had been consistent, but God didn't want them to be consistent. It's all part of the worldwide deception which is a necessary part of God's plan. In verse 18 Jesus says that God can "appolumi your body and soul." In verse 39 Jesus tells us that we must "appolumi our own soul." Either we 'appolumi' -destroy/lose our souls, or God will 'appolumi' our souls for us, and that is not the way we want to go, seeing that: "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God" (Heb. 10:31).

And notice this is precisely what we read in Matt. 5:29- "If your right eye offend you [then YOU] pluck it out... And if your right hand offend you [then YOU] cut it off... and not that your whole body should be cast [by GOD, 'fear HIM'] into Gehenna" (Matt. 5:28-30).

We must pluck out and cut off those members of the body which are used to sin against God:

"Mortify therefore your members [Gk: 'melos' -'parts of the BODY' -Dr. Strong] which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God comes ['fear HIM'] on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the Image of Him that created him [it]" (Col. 3:5-10).

But hopefully by now, we all know that the different "members" of our body [pluck out your eye; cut off your hand; cut off your foot] do not actually sin, but it is the heart and carnal mind of man that uses the members of his body to commit sin: "Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin..." (Rom. 6:13).

So then God teaches us to "fear HIM" and in so doing, destroy [Gk: 'apollumi' -destroy, perish, lose] our soul by "plucking out and cutting off" these members of our body so as to stop using them as "instruments of unrighteousness unto sin" so that God will not have to "destroy both our body and our soul in Gehenna" by "CASTING us into Gehenna." Are you beginning to understand the judgment of "Gehenna fire" and how it works?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

aqrinc

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 09:37:38 PM »

Yes Kat,

I just now got that whole picture. Having read this paper and listened to it so many times (finally).

Thanks Darren,

Great question, hope you got the answer that you were looking for too.


Quote
We must be spiritually baptized into Christ's death, and we must also LOSE OUR SOUL for Christ's sake.

Ray always says:  Learn to read Scriptures accurately and precisely.

Take note that Jesus did NOT say "And fear not them which KILL the body, but are not able to KILL the soul, but rather fear Him which is able to KILL both soul and body in hell [Gk: Gehenna]." No, Jesus did NOT say that, but it is assumed that He either said that or at least meant that. No, He did not. Jesus said: "And fear not them which KILL the body, but are not able to KILL the soul, but rather fear Him which is able to DESTROY both soul and body in hell [Gk: Gehenna]."

Why the switch? Jesus switches from "kill" to "destroy."

It is our "soul" that God is more interested in than our "life." An insane person may have a perfectly healthy life, but his soul is severely damaged. A comatose person may be in perfect physical health and be very much "alive," but possesses virtually no soul-conscious awareness, character, love, emotions, knowledge, hopes and dreams, memories, etc.

Now then, "destroy" in verse 28 is the Greek word 'appolumi' and it means: DESTROY, PARISH, LOSE. Wow! Are you seeing this? How much easier my job would be if only the translators had been consistent, but God didn't want them to be consistent. It's all part of the worldwide deception which is a necessary part of God's plan. In verse 18 Jesus says that God can "appolumi your body and soul." In verse 39 Jesus tells us that we must "appolumi our own soul." Either we 'appolumi' -destroy/lose our souls, or God will 'appolumi' our souls for us, and that is not the way we want to go, seeing that: "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God" (Heb. 10:31).

And notice this is precisely what we read in Matt. 5:29- "If your right eye offend you [then YOU] pluck it out... And if your right hand offend you [then YOU] cut it off... and not that your whole body should be cast [by GOD, 'fear HIM'] into Gehenna" (Matt. 5:28-30).

george. :)

« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 01:36:54 AM by aqr »
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Craig

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2009, 08:24:34 AM »

So is it fear.....him?   or fear.....Him?  Who is the H/him talked about?

Craig
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2009, 08:44:49 AM »

So is it fear.....him?   or fear.....Him?  Who is the H/him talked about?

Craig

Matthew 10:28 (New Living Translation)

 ďDonít be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (New King James Version)

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28 (Young's Literal Translation)

`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

Matthew 10:28 (New American Standard Bible)

"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Hi Craig,

Here are a few other translations that appear to clarify this, also if we continue reading (KJV) Matthew Chapter 10 (verses 29-33) Jesus is speaking of His (our) Father.

We also have a reference to this in Luke;


Luke 12 (New Living Translation)

4 ďDear friends, donít be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot do any more to you after that.

5 But Iíll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell. Yes, heís the one to fear.

Luke 12 (New American Standard Bible)

4"I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.

 5"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

Peace,

Joe
 

« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 10:49:03 AM by hillsbororiver »
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Samson

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2009, 11:15:06 AM »

Hi Darren,


                As shown in Kats and George's Post, the key Greek word isApollumiwhich means " to lose,
lost, ruin, destroy. Jesus came to save that which was lost. See another Email response of Ray's that
I copied and pasted below, it's addressed to a Mr. Smith PHD. I don't have the question part, only the
answer Ray gave which discusses the Greek Apollumi.


Dear Dr. Smith:  Too big a subject for an email, but I will make a few comments.  Christian doctrine is built upon paganism, superstition, erroneous translations, and hideous doctrines of men.  Of course, those persons who are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will not be in the kingdom reign of Jesus Christ. But that fact has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of humanity's eternal destiny.

"Many are called but few as chosen" is a statement of fact, not a statement of eternal exclusion.  God has predetermined to choose out a chosen elect FEW.  These will enter into the Kingdom of God which will then bring about the salvation of the rest of humanity through Judgment. Judgment is upon the chosen few House of God NOW (I Pet. 4:17).  When the knowledge of the Lord covers the earth like the waters cover the sea, then, not now but then,  "Because He hath appointed a day, IN THE WHICH He will judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS..." (Acts 17:31).   "WHEN [not now, but 'when']  Thy Judgments are in the earth the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9).

Those who enter the straight and narrow (difficult) way will enter into the Kingdom of God, but those who go the broad way will go into DESTRUCTION. This is certainly true. However. What is the final destiny of those who go the broad way to destruction.   Is there hope for the lost, the perish, the destroyed?  Duh!!  Jesus said, "The Son of Man is come to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10, Matt. 18:11).

The word translated "lost" is the Greek word "apollumi" which is translated "LOST," "PERISHED," and "DESTROYED."  Jesus Christ said that He is come to SAVE all those who are "apollumi"--destroyed, perished, and lost.

But does anyone believe Jesus?  NOT MANY. Like I said, too big a subject for an email.

God be with you,

Ray



Notice that Ray refers to Matthew 18:11 and Luke 19:10 where it says that the Son of Man
came to save that which was Lost.




                                      Kind Regards, Samson.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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First Fruit

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2009, 12:39:24 PM »

There is only One in whom we fear... Fear God and keep his commandments.  Not a scary fear but a reverence fear.  Fear of being disobedient to our Father.  All souls belong to God and go back to God... Adam was dead until God breathed his Spirit in him, then he became a living soul.  Our soul is what's being perfected not the outer man.  We are to love Father with with all our heart, all our mind, and all our souls.  Our souls is the inner man that's growing and being conformed to the image of Christ.  He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light. Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.  For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. He restores my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield. And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation.

As the deer panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.

I can go on and on....

Read the Psalms and Be Bless My Brother!  Let the Spirit lead and guide you into all truth. 

First Fruit






 
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aqrinc

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2009, 02:15:13 PM »


Hi Craig,

This may be too simplistic of an explanation, but when applied to me, this is how i see it.

The Fear (Him) is what a Child has for a Loving Parent; do right to get my Parents Approval.
Do not do wrong, which will get chastisement; from my same Loving Parents, to set me right.

Since we know that in this life we will have tribulation, we need not fear any of the pains,
chastisements or threats of this world (life).


`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul,


The Fear Of GOD (Him) is not a fear in terror, but one of not having His Approval.

but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

george. :)

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Marky Mark

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2009, 04:20:00 PM »

Rodger, Thanks for keeping the gate and the way narrow :)


Peace...Mark
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winner08

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2009, 03:51:42 AM »

Thanks Joe. I should have meantion that I was not giving a direct quote. I only could remember that line that way. I always thought it is great that certain people are blessed with the God given ability for quoting scripture. Thanks again.

Darren
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winner08

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2009, 04:17:33 AM »

Greetings Roger: I will make this short as it is getting late and I have to get up early. I was reading your reply and notice you had a part where you stated Gen 3 the fall of man. Ever since I learned the truth (well as little as I have so far) I understand that God knows the end from the beginning in all things. This is true wouldn't you say? So why would it be the fall of man, why would it be call the fall of man? Adam and Eve did exactly what God had intended them to do. It was His plan from the beginning. This is not a knock on anybody I don't understand the phrase the fall of man, like man screwed up Gods plan and God has been trying to fix it ever since.

Darren

PS. like I said this is not a knock on you are anybody else. I am just starting to pick up little things like this in recent weeks and trying to understand why such things are said.
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Falconn003

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2009, 06:12:07 AM »

Greetings Darren

That is how, the New American Standard Bible TRANSLATION TITLES those following Scriptures.

As it is just a title but not Scripture, did you notice a Little bit, why i left it black as in a general secular thought and i did not included it with the blue colored Scripture.

As any translation would have suffice to the TRUTH, i merely picked the 1st one and the title that came with it for an easier search of those readers who test my post and look up that certain translation of Scripture i use/used.

Knowing that the readers who seek TRUTH in the Word of God, would also go unto other translations aswell, i left them a trail to follow the Voice that used My Spirit as a vessel to plant that seed of Truth high-lighted in BLUE.

I can only suggest you take it up with the translators, they are not under contract with me and neither am i with them.

http://nasb.scripturetext.com/genesis/3.htm

And no knock taken as it is only misdirected.

Rodger
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 06:37:53 AM by Falconn003 »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2009, 09:19:24 AM »

Thanks Joe. I should have meantion that I was not giving a direct quote. I only could remember that line that way. I always thought it is great that certain people are blessed with the God given ability for quoting scripture. Thanks again.

Darren

You are very welcome Darren,

My ability to quote many scriptures comes from having a little help from our friends @ Esword & Bible Gateway.  ;)

http://www.e-sword.net/

http://www.biblegateway.com/

I can remember many phrases but the ability to bring up chapter and verse at the drop of a hat is not one of my strengths either.

Peace,

Joe

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aqrinc

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2009, 01:46:09 PM »


Thanks Joe. I should have meantion that I was not giving a direct quote. I only could remember that line that way. I always thought it is great that certain people are blessed with the God given ability for quoting scripture. Thanks again.

Darren

You are very welcome Darren,

My ability to quote many scriptures comes from having a little help from our friends @ Esword & Bible Gateway.  ;)

http://www.e-sword.net/

http://www.biblegateway.com/

I can remember many phrases but the ability to bring up chapter and verse at the drop of a hat is not one of my strengths either.

Peace,

Joe

Darren,

I will echo Joe and Rodger,

My ability to quote Scripture is multiplied many times over by the tools (esword, sword project) and their
search function. We still need to remember or know what to input for the search, but that is just practice.

The Scriptures that Rodger uses can be verified quickly by using the compare feature in e-sword.
Then it is up to GOD to open our hearts and minds to understand it today.

george.  ;D

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winner08

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Re: Fear those who can destroy the body and the soul
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2009, 11:10:02 PM »

Thanks Roger but no thanks, I don't plan to take it up with anyone or anybody. I was merely pointing out what I noticed. The fall of man, Is just one of those things that I would not have even given  a second thought about several months. Now that my beliefs are very different from what they were, I just believe there was no fall, I believe man did exactly what the Lord intended for them to do. Like Ray has always said no human has ever,ever surprised God by anything we done or do.

Darren
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