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Author Topic: as many as thou hast given me  (Read 8100 times)

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legoman

  • Guest
as many as thou hast given me
« on: March 09, 2009, 03:18:25 PM »

Hi,

I'm looking for clarification of this verse:

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal [aionios] life to as many as thou hast given him.

Here is my understanding:  The father has given Jesus power over all flesh.  And he will give aionios life to "as many as thou hast given" to him. 

Is this phrase "as many as thou hast given" referring to the firstfruits only?  ie. the chosen elect?  Even though the Father has given Jesus power over all, he has only been given the chosen few for aionios life, right?

Its interesting because some universalists use this verse to show that all will get eternal [aionios] life, since Father has given Jesus power over all - I don't believe this is quite correct.

Likewise Calvinists will use this verse to show that God only gives eternal life to the elect, which is not correct either.

Any clarification available in Ray's papers?

Kevin
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 07:26:21 PM »

Kevin,

Is not Jesus the Christ the savior of all men?I do not see anywhere in Scripture that Jesus is only the Savior of the elect.I would have to think that Jesus is talking to the Father about the few chosen on down through the ages. Starting with his Apostles but also His disciples.The elect are called out first, in the Truths of the Word.


John 17

1 These things spoke Jesus; and, lifting his eyes to heaven, he said: Father, the hour has come: glorify thy Son, that the Son may glorify thee,

2 as thou hast given him authority over all flesh, that to all that thou hast given him he may give them life eternal.

3 But eternal life is this, that they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth, having finished the work that thou gavest me to do;
5 and now, Father, glorify thou me with thyself with the glory that I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world. Thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word;

7 now they know that all things whatever thou hast given me are from thee;

8 for the words that thou gavest me I have given them, and they have received them, and have known in truth that I came forth from thee, and have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for those that thou hast given me, for they are thine,
10 and all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I have been glorified in them.

11 And I am no longer in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in my name that thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we.

12 When I was with them I kept them in thy name that thou hast given me, and I have guarded them, and no one of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the Scripture may be fulfilled.

13 But now I come to thee, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word, and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou take them out of the world, but that thou keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou didst send me into the world, I sent them into the world;

19 and for them I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in the truth.

20 But not for these only do I pray, but also for those that believe on me through their word,

21 that they all may be one, as thou. Father, art in me and I in thee, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that thou didst send me.

22 And the glory that thou hast given me I have given them, that they may be one as we are one:

23 I in them and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, as to what thou hast given me, I would that they also be with me where I am, that they may see my glory, which thou hast given me because thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
 
25 Righteous Father, though the world has not known thee, yet I have known thee, and these have known that thou didst send me;

26 and I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them.



Peace...Mark

« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 07:28:25 PM by Marky Mark »
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 07:51:14 PM »

Hi,

I'm looking for clarification of this verse:

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal [aionios] life to as many as thou hast given him.

Here is my understanding:  The father has given Jesus power over all flesh.  And he will give aionios life to "as many as thou hast given" to him. 

Is this phrase "as many as thou hast given" referring to the firstfruits only?  ie. the chosen elect?  Even though the Father has given Jesus power over all, he has only been given the chosen few for aionios life, right?

Its interesting because some universalists use this verse to show that all will get eternal [aionios] life, since Father has given Jesus power over all - I don't believe this is quite correct.

Likewise Calvinists will use this verse to show that God only gives eternal life to the elect, which is not correct either.

Any clarification available in Ray's papers?

Kevin


Hello Kevin,

Yes, I believe the 2005 conference, 'What is the Gospel of the Kingdom?' goes over what your are saying. The Chosen & Faithful will have eonian life or life in the next age...which is to mean 'to rule & reign with Christ' at His return. The rest of humanity will be raised into eonian judgment:

Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [eonian] life, and some to shame and everlasting [eonian] contempt [judgment]

John 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [eonian] life, and shall not come into condemnation [judgment]; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:47  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting [eonian] life.

Matt 25:46  And these shall go away into everlasting [eonian] punishment [judgment]: but the righteous into life eternal [eonian].

2 Thess 1:8-9  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting [eonian] destruction [judgment] from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Only God's chosen have life in the next age or eonian life...the wicked will only have judgment at the Great White Throne of Judgment. This eonian life for the Elect is to be vivified with spiritual bodies:

1 Cor 15:51-53  ...We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Cor 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive [Gk. zoopoieo (of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life)]



Hope this helps,

Marques
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legoman

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 12:20:38 AM »

Kevin,

Is not Jesus the Christ the savior of all men?I do not see anywhere in Scripture that Jesus is only the Savior of the elect.I would have to think that Jesus is talking to the Father about the few chosen on down through the ages. Starting with his Apostles but also His disciples.The elect are called out first, in the Truths of the Word.

Agreed.  My question was more to clarify the meaning of that particular verse (John 17:2).

I believe that verse is showing that the "as many as thou hast given" is only speaking of the elect, as you suggest as well.  Marques point out the scriptures that confirms this as well.


That's not to say that Jesus doesn't save the non-elect as well (although many people would suggest that).

It was more of a "curiosity question" as I've seen a few UR believers suggest that all people will get eternal/aionios life because of that verse John 17:2.


--

Here is the confusing part for me:

All things have been given to Christ (John 3:35, John 13:3).  But only "as many as thou hast given" shall receive aionios life (John 17:2).

So even though all things have been given to Christ, only those given specifically for aionios life receive aionios life (ie. the elect). 

Thanks,
Kevin
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 12:42:58 AM »

Hi Kevin,

How about these translations, seems to make a difference on the proper parsing. Oops Matt 28:18 ???

Mat 28:18 (KJV) 
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mat 28:18 (CLV)
And, approaching, Jesus speaks to them saying, "Given to Me was all authority in heaven and on the earth."

Joh 17:2 (GW)
After all, you've given him authority over all humanity so that he can give eternal life to all those you gave to him.

Joh 17:2 (CLV)
according as Thou givest Him authority over all flesh, that everything which Thou hast given to Him, He should be giving it to them, even life eonian."

Joh 17:2 (GNB)
For you gave him authority over all people, so that he might give eternal life to all those you gave him.


george.  ;D



« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 12:47:30 AM by aqr »
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EKnight

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 12:51:37 AM »

George,

So that would be everyone, right?

I am confused as to what Kevin is or isn't trying to say.
Quote
It was more of a "curiosity question" as I've seen a few UR believers suggest that all people will get eternal/aionios life because of that verse John 17:2.

Eileen
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 01:05:16 AM »

Hi Eileen,

If i understand his question, Kevin is asking 2 questions.

1: eonian Life for Believers.

2: All being saved and given Immortality.

This Scripture addresses All, at least that is how i read it. If it addresses all it does not exclude either.
Anyone with better understanding please jump in.

george. ???


Ps. Eonian life for the Elect and immortality for All.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 01:07:31 AM by aqr »
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2009, 01:38:16 AM »

Hi Eileen,

If i understand his question, Kevin is asking 2 questions.

1: eonian Life for Believers.

2: All being saved and given Immortality.

This Scripture addresses All, at least that is how i read it. If it addresses all it does not exclude either.
Anyone with better understanding please jump in.

george. ???


Ps. Eonian life for the Elect and immortality for All.


John 17:1-2  These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John 10:27-28  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Mark 4:10  And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Matt 7:13-14  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luke 9:23-24  And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

John 3:14-15  ...the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



Kevin is correct in what he is stating (not asking) regarding John 17:2...eonian (everlasting, eternal) life is NOT promised to unbelievers & many called. Eonian life is NOT the same as being saved.

Eonian life pertains to life, spiritual life with spiritual bodies [1 Cor 15], in the next age/eon...not just a living, breathing body in the next age/eon. Eonian life pertains to the Elect ruling and reigning with Christ as a royal priesthood, holy nation that is to bless all the nations [Gal 3:8, Gen 22:18, Deut 14:2].

For those who will not have eonian life, they will be resurrected unto Judgment. They will 'live' in the next age/eon but they will not be 'vivified' [quickened; spiritual bodies] but be in the same corruption [fleshly, carnality] that they perished in. Once they are blessed & healed (judged in LOF), then they will be 'comformed into His image' but this happens at the END of that age/eon. That is why they do not have 'eonian life' as they are not 'vivified' like Christ at His coming unlike the saints (elect) who will be changed at His coming [1 Cor 15:51, 1 John 3:2]. Their change happens last, at the end of the eon though they are being judged throughout the eon.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2009, 11:07:46 AM »

Quote
Kevin is correct in what he is stating (not asking) regarding John 17:2...eonian (everlasting, eternal) life is NOT promised to unbelievers & many called. Eonian life is NOT the same as being saved.

Eonian life pertains to life, spiritual life with spiritual bodies [1 Cor 15], in the next age/eon...not just a living, breathing body in the next age/eon. Eonian life pertains to the Elect ruling and reigning with Christ as a royal priesthood, holy nation that is to bless all the nations [Gal 3:8, Gen 22:18, Deut 14:2].

For those who will not have eonian life, they will be resurrected unto Judgment. They will 'live' in the next age/eon but they will not be 'vivified' [quickened; spiritual bodies] but be in the same corruption [fleshly, carnality] that they perished in. Once they are blessed & healed (judged in LOF), then they will be 'comformed into His image' but this happens at the END of that age/eon. That is why they do not have 'eonian life' as they are not 'vivified' like Christ at His coming unlike the saints (elect) who will be changed at His coming [1 Cor 15:51, 1 John 3:2]. Their change happens last, at the end of the eon though they are being judged throughout the eon.


Hope this helps,

Marques

Quote
For those who will not have eonian life, they will be resurrected unto Judgment. They will 'live' in the next age/eon but they will not be 'vivified' [quickened; spiritual bodies] but be in the same corruption [fleshly, carnality] that they perished in.


Agreed  +1

I think some of the confusion that people have a hard time differentiating between is the word eonian life with age/eon.Our Fathers master plan consists of ages and not just an age.



Peace...Mark

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2009, 12:09:54 PM »


Hi Kevin,

Quote
Here is the confusing part for me:

All things have been given to Christ (John 3:35, John 13:3).  But only "as many as thou hast given" shall receive aionios life (John 17:2).

So even though all things have been given to Christ, only those given specifically for aionios life receive aionios life (ie. the elect). 


It is true that "All things have been given to Christ" and it is also true that only "as many as Thou hast given."  These are both true because Christ always did whatever the Father's will was.  He did not receive "all things" yet, as in all people saved in this age, because it is not the Father's will yet.  But Christ does have all authority.

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

But all that Christ has and does always lines up exactly with the Father's will.

John 8:28  Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.

John 14:10  Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

Joh 10:30  I and My Father are one."

Hope hope this is what you were asking about, if not it is still good to read these things.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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legoman

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2009, 12:38:52 PM »

Thanks Kat & Marques,

(everyone else) As you can see that verse (John 17:2) can cause some confusion...

I think you have confirmed my earlier thinking in the OP.

Basically:

1.  The father has given all power to Christ.

2.  A certain subset of people have been given to Christ for the specific purpose of aionios life.  This is the "as many as Thou hast given" - the subset, also called the chosen or elect, have been given for aionios life.  Everyone else will NOT get aionios life AT ALL.  They will get aionios chastisement/punishment instead.

3.  Of course everyone will be eventually saved after the ages (aions) end.


I think the confusion may be because I wasn't paying attention to all the words.  Look at some of this translations that George posted:
Joh 17:2 (GW)
After all, you've given him authority over all humanity so that he can give eternal life to all those you gave to him.

Notice: The father gave authority over all people.  But he will only give aionios life to the people that were given him [to give aionios life too].

Is that clear?

It doesn't help that it references "eternal" life - so if you just read it at face value it sounds like all will be given eternal life.  Even though that is true, that is not what this verse is saying!  Argh! I think I understand this better now, but I probably didn't explain it well...  :)

Legoman
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2009, 01:24:32 PM »


Hi,

I'm looking for clarification of this verse:

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal [aionios] life to as many as thou hast given him.

Here is my understanding:  The father has given Jesus power over all flesh.  And he will give aionios life to "as many as thou hast given" to him. 

Is this phrase "as many as thou hast given" referring to the firstfruits only?  ie. the chosen elect?  Even though the Father has given Jesus power over all, he has only been given the chosen few for aionios life, right?

Its interesting because some universalists use this verse to show that all will get eternal [aionios] life, since Father has given Jesus power over all - I don't believe this is quite correct.

Likewise Calvinists will use this verse to show that God only gives eternal life to the elect, which is not correct either.

Any clarification available in Ray's papers?

Kevin


Kevin,

Is not Jesus the Christ the savior of all men?I do not see anywhere in Scripture that Jesus is only the Savior of the elect.I would have to think that Jesus is talking to the Father about the few chosen on down through the ages. Starting with his Apostles but also His disciples.The elect are called out first, in the Truths of the Word.

Agreed.  My question was more to clarify the meaning of that particular verse (John 17:2).

I believe that verse is showing that the "as many as thou hast given" is only speaking of the elect, as you suggest as well.  Marques point out the scriptures that confirms this as well.

That's not to say that Jesus doesn't save the non-elect as well (although many people would suggest that).

It was more of a "curiosity question" as I've seen a few UR believers suggest that all people will get eternal/aionios life because of that verse John 17:2.

--

Here is the confusing part for me:

All things have been given to Christ (John 3:35, John 13:3).  But only "as many as thou hast given" shall receive aionios life (John 17:2).

So even though all things have been given to Christ, only those given specifically for aionios life receive aionios life (ie. the elect). 

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin, Marques,

I thought the above statement was posed as a question, which is why my post was posed as an answer.

My second post in this thread was specific to Eileen's question first; then asking for anyone with better
understanding to jump in and explain if i was in error.

Hope this clarifies why i thought it was a question from Kevin.

george :).


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legoman

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2009, 01:56:40 PM »

No problem george.  Partly it was a question from me - just for clarification though.

Anyway thanks for all the responses.
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First Fruit

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2009, 01:29:19 PM »

Guys, bare with me as I am flowing by the Spirit. 

Our Father has given us power over all our flesh.  Power to destroy the works of the flesh/mind, to walk in the spirit and not according to the flesh/world.  To take every though captive and bring it into the obeience of Christ.  Our weapons of warfare are not carnal but mighty in power... Renew our minds be not conformed to the world.  He has given us power to live holy and blameless before him and our conduct, conversation, character should reflect such.  Our light should shine before men that they may see our works and glorify our Father.  Our light should expose the darkness.  Darkness has on place in the light.  What fellowship does darkness have with light, holy with unholy, clean with unclean? 

God has given us children as gifts, we are responsible for them.  We are to train them up in the WAY they should go.  Let them see our light.  Teach them the things of their true Father, that their light might shine.  This is how we become fruitful and multiply.  Our children are our fruit, let's not lead them astray then we too can say, those you have given me, I have lost none.     

As for me and my house (my flesh, my body, my members), we will serve the Lord...

Fellow laborer
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2009, 02:07:42 PM »

Guys, bare with me as I am flowing by the Spirit. 

Our Father has given us power over all our flesh.  Power to destroy the works of the flesh/mind, to walk in the spirit and not according to the flesh/world.  To take every though captive and bring it into the obeience of Christ.  Our weapons of warfare are not carnal but mighty in power... Renew our minds be not conformed to the world.  He has given us power to live holy and blameless before him and our conduct, conversation, character should reflect such.  Our light should shine before men that they may see our works and glorify our Father.  Our light should expose the darkness.  Darkness has on place in the light.  What fellowship does darkness have with light, holy with unholy, clean with unclean? 

God has given us children as gifts, we are responsible for them.  We are to train them up in the WAY they should go.  Let them see our light.  Teach them the things of their true Father, that their light might shine.  This is how we become fruitful and multiply.  Our children are our fruit, let's not lead them astray then we too can say, those you have given me, I have lost none.     

As for me and my house (my flesh, my body, my members), we will serve the Lord...

Fellow laborer


Slow down there First Fruit...your enthusiasm is appreciated but this excerpt from your comments is not fulfilled, as of yet:

1 John 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Rom Chapter 7

14  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16  If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



Short excerpt from 'How Hard is Getting Saved?' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html):

All these things take a lifetime.  We’re going to live "the seals."  A third part of the man died... that’s a third part of the man in us that is going to die, a third part of the carnality.  God works in increments, He wipes out some of the trees and then He burns some of the grass… what is the trees and the grass?  These are all things in us. We have islands, and mountains, and trees, and grass. All of these are belief systems and ideas and doctrines and philosophies of life and all these things. And they are all going to be burned out and broken down and destroyed. All of those seven seals, seven trumpets, seven plagues, they are all things that must happen in our lives.


Everything about being called, chosen, and faithful takes a lifetime...picking up our cross, baptized into His death, coming out of Babylon, etc take one's complete lifetime. These things are not simply accomplished by reciting a few scriptures, logging onto a forum, leaving a church building, or anything of those simple, outward things. These things happen IN US over our entire lifetime, in this age.

Learning to not worship the beast when it was as natural to do as breathing takes a lifetime.

Why do we console a member who is fighting his smoking addiction and say:'it takes time...the Lord will have you quit on His time' but on the other hand, we treat coming out of Babylon and not worshiping the Beast as simple as walking out of a church door. Or partaking of spiritual meat, or His grace working in us...these things take a lifetime. They are not as simple as 1, 2, 3.

Please excuse me First Fruit as these last few comments were not directly primarily at you, per se, more for all our members. I just don't want us to become complacent and get our guards down...it is a daily war with the flesh and we, any of us, could be 'castaway' [1 Cor 9:27] by assuming it's a 'done deal'.


Thanks,

Marques
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Vangie

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2009, 03:32:09 PM »


Everything about being called, chosen, and faithful takes a lifetime...picking up our cross, baptized into His death, coming out of Babylon, etc take one's complete lifetime. These things are not simply accomplished by reciting a few scriptures, logging onto a forum, leaving a church building, or anything of those simple, outward things. These things happen IN US over our entire lifetime, in this age.

Learning to not worship the beast when it was as natural to do as breathing takes a lifetime.

Why do we console a member who is fighting his smoking addiction and say:'it takes time...the Lord will have you quit on His time' but on the other hand, we treat coming out of Babylon and not worshiping the Beast as simple as walking out of a church door. Or partaking of spiritual meat, or His grace working in us...these things take a lifetime. They are not as simple as 1, 2, 3.

Please excuse me First Fruit as these last few comments were not directly primarily at you, per se, more for all our members. I just don't want us to become complacent and get our guards down...it is a daily war with the flesh and we, any of us, could be 'castaway' [1 Cor 9:27] by assuming it's a 'done deal'.

Marques,
Amen to that.  Thanks for clarifying and reminding us, for we all need make sure we don't become complacent and think "overcoming" is something we've already accomplished.

Love in Christ,
Vangie
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 03:37:14 PM by Vangie »
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2009, 03:59:56 PM »

Marques,

  Thanks for the reminder that, indeed, we are all in battle against the flesh but also against our biggest adversary,the serpent.


Peace...Mark
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Marlene

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Re: as many as thou hast given me
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2009, 12:28:58 AM »

Amen Marques, I ask God daily to show me in what area the Beast needs to be overcome. The Beast is always ready to raise up, we never want to get so use to it that we do not see it. That would for sure put us in the position of the castaway. Nice, to have forum members who remind us to watch and be careful. We better not fall to sleep and think  we have it made. My physical Father always told me it is a hard walk till the day we die. I just, think Ray's article on How Hard Is It To Get Saved is one we should read often. I was just telling my Mother it is more then a 15 second prayer.

In His Love,
Marlene
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