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Author Topic: Question: How can a man go against God's will?  (Read 14451 times)

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mhykx

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Re: Question: How can a man go against God's will?
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2009, 10:31:13 PM »

Thanks guys for all your inputs!

I overlooked the paragraph next to this:

To the question, "…who has resisted His will?" the answer is: EVERYONE! But when properly translated, to the question, "who has resisted His purpose?" the answer is: ABSOLUTELY NO ONE!

That is,

God has a will and God has a plan and purpose to reach that will. And no small part of reaching His desired will is to set men against His will, just as He did with Pharaoh. But no one has ever hindered God’s plan and purpose in reaching that goal and stated will. God’s will, will be done in His time.

Also, I found one of Ray's answer to same question:

Dear Ray,

I read with interest your paper about 9/11. However, I do have a question.

You wrote:

"Isaiah 30:1-3, 6-7”"Woe to the rebellious children [Israel], says the Lord,
that take counsel, but not of ME: and cover with a covering [Heb: make an
alliance or ratify a covenant, but not of MY spirit [Heb: against
My will], that they may add sin to sin ...

"And they reject the counsel of God. They go against Gods will in these
matters ..."

I thought no one COULD go against God's will. Please explain.

God bless,
Sandy


    Dear Sandy:  People go against God's will ALL DAY LONG. That's what most

    peoples' lives consist of--going against God's will.  It is God's purpose, plan, and

    intentions that absolutely no one has ever or ever will go against.  Listen:  It is

    God's purpose and plan that people GO AGAINST HIS WILL. He purposes for

    people to go against His will. It is God's will that we all become PERFECT as He

    is perfect, but it is in His sovereign plan that we all live very imperfect lives before

    God begins to change us into perfecion.

    God be with you,

    Ray


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indianabob

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Re: Question: How can a man go against God's will?
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2009, 12:03:35 AM »

Please see quote below:

So then, was it God's will that the driver run the red light and cause an accident?
NO?  Maybe?  Yes? 
Or was it God's will that the driver make a selfish choice some of the time?
Did God know that selfish drivers would sometimes ignore the rules to their own hurt?
If true, then is it not our own choices that cause us harm MOST times?
Is it not our own choices or the choices of others that cause us harm most times?

Of course God can and does bring events to pass in the lives of those with whom He is working.
Does that mean that every bad event was forced upon all living people by God?  I don't see it that way.

e.g.  In most instances if and when you leave home to drive to work and are in a hurry and drive too fast for conditions and have an accident and are hurt or hurt someone else, it is your own fault and God did not cause it to happen to teach you a lesson.  To the contrary, God let you learn a hard lesson as a result of your own lack of discipline, a personal trait that you could have developed at a much younger age if you had made better choices.  So, don't blame God.

Did God make us without self discipline and lacking training for living a life of accomplishment?  YES
Does that mean that the average person has to remain UNDISCIPLINED all of their life until God intervenes?  I don't believe that it does.  We have some control of our own lives and we have the responsibility to make the best of our own opportunities.  If and when we receive an earnest of God's spirit and become aware of a growing relationship with our creator, THEN we are to exercise the gift of God's spirit and build upon that gift and seek God's help in developing the character of Jesus.

We do have a part to play in this life of overcoming.  However, people who are not called and have no knowledge of God even though they may live in a Christian nation are still responsible and accountable for  their own actions.  I don't see it that God causes every bad result that happens to individuals and I would define it better in my own view that God made us the way we are at birth with all the limitations that that implies, but that He expects our parents to guide us into adult life with love and concern so that we avoid many of the pitfalls that we all face.

I think that we need to be very careful how we define God's part in the harm that befalls each one of us in our daily lives.  A loving parent allows their children to experience life in a dangerous environment, but a loving parent doesn't push their child into the moving traffic lane to correct them.

Bob



QUOTE:

Dear Sandy:  People go against God's will ALL DAY LONG. That's what most

    peoples' lives consist of--going against God's will.  It is God's purpose, plan, and

    intentions that absolutely no one has ever or ever will go against.  Listen:  It is

    God's purpose and plan that people GO AGAINST HIS WILL. He purposes for

    people to go against His will. It is God's will that we all become PERFECT as He

    is perfect, but it is in His sovereign plan that we all live very imperfect lives before

    God begins to change us into perfection.


    God be with you,

    Ray
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judith collier

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Re: Question: How can a man go against God's will?
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2009, 06:35:22 AM »

I love reading this topic. It always humbles me and I probably should read it every day. I love the Sovereignty of God. I love to ponder Him as Majestic. When I think like this, there is nothing I wouldn't do for Him but being imperfect as of yet, I always fall short when the problems come. But even this makes me love Him for I know I am little and nothing and I get a better picture of Him because he knows I am nothing and He always comes to my rescue eventually. How lucky for us that our God is a good and loving God. Judy
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Roy Martin

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Re: Question: How can a man go against God's will?
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2009, 09:08:21 AM »

 Its a hard thing for our carnal minds to wrap around, but it is as we know it that God subjects the world to vanity in every way we can imagine, and in ways we cant see.
If God can know how many hairs are on my head and how many will fall out each day, then he can certainly influence every choice I make.
 Its all about the seen and unseen.
It doesn't matter what we think about this topic because God is going to do His thing His way.
 Every once in a while I will choose to pull out one of my gray hairs that is sticking out too much. God knows the number of them. Was God involved in that choice? How could He not be?. Of course I didn't have a lesson to learn from a gray hair, its just a hair. Did I mess up Gods count of my hairs?
  I use to think that the people  God brought out of Egypt were the most stupid people on earth. They saw a sea divided, and the rest of the story, yet they chose to rebel and deny God.
I could say if I had been one of them that I wouldn't be so stupid, but I see now that I would be wrong by saying that. God was and is in control.
 Since God knows everything before it happens, is it because He is just good at telling the future or because He is responsible for it beforehand, preordained, or predestined, which ever word is right.
 If it is Gods purpose that we go against His will; then how could He do that if He wasn't involved in our choices? Every choice in every one, big and small, even a hair, seen and unseen.

Peace
Roy
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 02:47:06 PM by Roy Martin »
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Roy Martin

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Re: Question: How can a man go against God's will?
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2009, 09:43:26 AM »

Someone just sent me this story that seems to be fitting for this topic.
 
 
A man from Norfolk , VA called a local radio station to share this on Sept 11th, 2003, TWO YEARS AFTER THE TRAGEDIES OF 9/11/2001.

His name was Robert Matthews. These are his words:

A few weeks before Sept. 11th, my wife and I found out we were going to have our first child. She planned a trip out to California to visit her sister.  On our way to the airport, we prayed that God would grant my wife a safe trip and be with her. Shortly after I said 'amen,' we both heard a loud pop and the car shook violently. We had blown out a tire. I replaced the tire as quickly as I could, but we still missed her flight. Both very upset, we drove home. I received a call from my father who was retired NYFD. He asked what my wife's flight number was, but I explained that we missed the flight. My father informed me that her flight was the one that crashed into the southern tower. I was too shocked to speak. My father also had more news for me; he was going to help. 'This is not something I can't just sit by for; I have to do something.'

I was concerned for his safety, of course, but more because he had never given his life to Christ. After a brief debate, I knew his mind was made up. Before he got off of the phone, he said, 'take good care of my Grandchild. Those were the last words I ever heard my father say; he died while helping in the rescue effort.

My joy that my prayer of safety for my wife had been answered quickly became anger. I was angry at God, at my father, and at myself. I had gone for nearly two years blaming God for taking my father away. My son would never know his grandfather, my father had never accepted Christ, and I never got to say good-bye.

Then something happened. About two months ago, I was sitting at home with my wife and my son, when there was a knock on the door. I looked at my wife, but I could tell she wasn't expecting anyone. I opened the door to a couple with a small child. The man looked at me and asked if my father's name was Jake Matthews. I told  him it was. He quickly grabbed my hand and said, 'I never got the chance to meet your father, but it is an honor to meet his son.'

He explained to me that his wife had worked in the World Trade Center and had been caught inside after the attack. She was pregnant and had been caught under debris. He then explained that my father had been the one to find his wife and free her.  My eyes welled up with tears as I thought of my father giving his life for people like this. He then said, 'there is something else you need to know..'

His wife then told me that as my father worked to free her, she talked to him and led him to Christ. I began sobbing at the news.  Now I know that when I get to Heaven, my father will be standing beside Jesus to welcome me, and that this family would be able to thank him themselves.  When their baby boy was born, they named him Jacob Matthew, in honor of the man who gave his life so that a mother and baby could live.

   There is some blindness in this story but the point is (choice) and God being in control.

Roy

« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 09:48:42 AM by Roy Martin »
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Kat

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Re: Question: How can a man go against God's will?
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2009, 11:57:38 AM »



Yes we have choices, but even these choices are part of His plan.  It is so hard to grasp the complete sovereignty of God.  Sometimes I don't think we fully understand the implications of this verse.

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning,
       And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
       Saying, "My counsel shall stand,
       And I will do all My pleasure,'

Since He knows "the end form the beginning," then He has full awareness of everything in between.  That means there are no 'ifs.'  There can not be any, 'what IF I had just known what to do'... 'what IF I had left on time'... 'what If I had not been there'...  No 'ifs,' it happened the way it was intended to happen, the only way it could have happened, because God is sovereign and knows "the end from the beginning." 

We are having this physical life experience because it is what God has determined is the best way for us to learn and develop the fruit of the spirit.  Eventually, either in this life or the next (LOF) everyone will learn the fruits of the spirit.  Notice that all of these fruit are about ones attitude or who one mental disposition.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
v. 23  gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

We are doing all these physical things in our life, we are given our physical senses which we use to develop how we feel about things, our attitude.  But all of these physical things will go away (nothing physical lasts, it is temporary) and what remains is the experience, what we learned, attitude.  It is ultimately the fruits of the spirit that are the good works/attitude that will remain, judgment will remove all the rest.

1Co 3:13  each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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EKnight

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Re: Question: How can a man go against God's will?
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2009, 01:08:02 PM »

I think Roy's story is the perfect example of God's will in our lives.  It was not the will of this man and his wife to miss this flight.  But it was also not the will of God for the wife to get on that flight.  It was not her appointed time.  So whose will prevailed?  And His will shall always prevail.

The flip side is that in this circumstance, the couple is grateful and gave glory to God, however, it seems when things don't appear to go our way, then we refuse to accept God's sovereignty.

I was going to say something else but God just took it right out of my head and won't give it back---always working all in all.

Eileen
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Marlene

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Re: Question: How can a man go against God's will?
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2009, 01:50:00 PM »

Yes, stories where we see it is God's will help us to be humble and see we are not in contol. When, we realize that God is control of all things, it will bring peace to our life. I am so glad he controls the whole world. Just, look what goes one when Man thinks he does.

I always wanted children. I have been a diabetic for years. But, it still has affected my body over the years. If, I would have had children I would have had trials that would have been more then we could bare. We, have enough as it is. I have other health issues too. But, God has been good to help us through all our trials. I know, our trials have made me and my husband better people.

I think, what really helps us  all to endure is knowing that after the physical we have God waiting on us.

Just, as I know I have all of you of like mind to help with your prayers and help me to understand when I just don't see it. I thank God for you every day and for Ray. The people in Babylon have no idea what knowing the whole truth can do for a person. It is just not a select few like some club that Jesus came for .  Our, understanding of this sets us free of worry for others after death if they do not believe. The elect will be right in there with God helping the others to overcome. Now, if that is not a grand thought I don't know what is. God will do exactly as he pleases and it will all bring out a good purpose.

In His Love,
Marlene
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judith collier

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Re: Question: How can a man go against God's will?
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2009, 03:24:00 AM »

Roy, that is a good life event in remembering for you and us. We all need to be reminded of God's control. It helps us to feel like a child of a loving parent even when we are disciplined. judy
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